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Post by quinn on May 9, 2013 11:51:05 GMT -8
Good to hear you're making progress. Thanks! I think my little vacation is nearly over.  Yes, it was all really fascinating (once my stomach righted itself - a long 21 hours there). The repair job was going on before I could notice it much because my thinking mind mostly shut down. Speech was slurred at first and my sense of time was gone. Then that got better but it was difficult to find words, could print but not use cursive, usual aches and pains were gone. It's like all unnecessary systems shut down to put resources in the critical zone. That was the first 4 days. After that it was all about lining up walls, floors & movement. Pain came back a few days ago, readable cursive just yesterday. I'm almost an adult! ;D |
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Post by enigma on May 9, 2013 12:09:01 GMT -8
But during the waking state the dream state is seen as imagination/purely mental while the waking state is seen as reality/physical and such. So when these complete worlds come and go in an instant, one might wonder if that distinction physical/mental is really that accurate or important. Does that make the distinction between imagination and physicality inaccurate or unimportant too? I don't really know how to assign accuracy or importance, though I'd say the distinction is really just contextual. IOW, imagining and forming a nightly dream is different from daydreaming about aliens, which is different from imagining that a killer is really stalking you, which is different from the experience that results from imagining you are a separate person, which is different from the 'collective imagination' of time and space and objects. Creation (the world) is fundamentally imagination expressed in sensory form, and so distinctions are somewhat arbitrary, though practical. Hencely, all distinctions fall into this category. |
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Post by enigma on May 9, 2013 12:24:15 GMT -8
Good to hear you're making progress. Thanks! I think my little vacation is nearly over. Yes, it was all really fascinating (once my stomach righted itself - a long 21 hours there). The repair job was going on before I could notice it much because my thinking mind mostly shut down. Speech was slurred at first and my sense of time was gone. Then that got better but it was difficult to find words, could print but not use cursive, usual aches and pains were gone. It's like all unnecessary systems shut down to put resources in the critical zone. That was the first 4 days. After that it was all about lining up walls, floors & movement. Pain came back a few days ago, readable cursive just yesterday. I'm almost an adult! ;D The thought that occurs to me is that your usual pains didn't go away because of some bodily redirection, but because of a mental/psychic redirection. IOW, 'When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget you came to drain the swamp'.  If that's so, it means you can remove your attention from those pains now. You don't need the alligators. |
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Post by quinn on May 10, 2013 3:04:28 GMT -8
Does that make the distinction between imagination and physicality inaccurate or unimportant too? I don't really know how to assign accuracy or importance, though I'd say the distinction is really just contextual. IOW, imagining and forming a nightly dream is different from daydreaming about aliens, which is different from imagining that a killer is really stalking you, which is different from the experience that results from imagining you are a separate person, which is different from the 'collective imagination' of time and space and objects. Creation (the world) is fundamentally imagination expressed in sensory form, and so distinctions are somewhat arbitrary, though practical. Hencely, all distinctions fall into this category. I am aware of arbitrary yet practical in context, which is very different from inaccurate and unimportant. Inaccurate could be another way of saying arbitrary, although it's less clear. But my question to Reefs was about the "unimportant" statement. |
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Post by quinn on May 10, 2013 3:45:20 GMT -8
The thought that occurs to me is that your usual pains didn't go away because of some bodily redirection, but because of a mental/psychic redirection. IOW, 'When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget you came to drain the swamp'. If that's so, it means you can remove your attention from those pains now. You don't need the alligators. Well, your first paragraph could be true. I can't agree with the extrapolation in the second, though. It's true that giving pain an undue amount of attention can make it seem more acute. And turning attention away from pain can be a temporary relief, depending on how strong it is. But physical pain is a natural and useful messenger, telling us that something isn't right with the body. Turning attention away is ignoring the message. Done on a regular basis, whatever's wrong usually escalates. Chronic physical pain is a big broad subject - there are a lot of components to it and they can overlap like crazy. Thoughts, attention, body chemistry and physiology, environment, conditioning, energy, beliefs, and no doubt more. While it was kind of pleasant to have no pain for a week, now that it's back it got me to move upstairs last night, off the lumpy pull-out couch mattress. |
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Post by humphrey on May 10, 2013 7:17:44 GMT -8
Good to hear you're making progress. Thanks! I think my little vacation is nearly over. Yes, it was all really fascinating (once my stomach righted itself - a long 21 hours there). The repair job was going on before I could notice it much because my thinking mind mostly shut down. Speech was slurred at first and my sense of time was gone. Then that got better but it was difficult to find words, could print but not use cursive, usual aches and pains were gone. It's like all unnecessary systems shut down to put resources in the critical zone. That was the first 4 days. After that it was all about lining up walls, floors & movement. Pain came back a few days ago, readable cursive just yesterday. I'm almost an adult! ;D Sheesh, first vertigo and then also stomach issues, pain, slurred speech?? that's an unwelcome cocktail, I'd say. Are they chalking that all up to that lathryngoitis or whatever you called it? |
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Post by enigma on May 10, 2013 13:33:24 GMT -8
The thought that occurs to me is that your usual pains didn't go away because of some bodily redirection, but because of a mental/psychic redirection. IOW, 'When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget you came to drain the swamp'. If that's so, it means you can remove your attention from those pains now. You don't need the alligators. Well, your first paragraph could be true. I can't agree with the extrapolation in the second, though. It's true that giving pain an undue amount of attention can make it seem more acute. And turning attention away from pain can be a temporary relief, depending on how strong it is. But physical pain is a natural and useful messenger, telling us that something isn't right with the body. Turning attention away is ignoring the message. Done on a regular basis, whatever's wrong usually escalates. Chronic physical pain is a big broad subject - there are a lot of components to it and they can overlap like crazy. Thoughts, attention, body chemistry and physiology, environment, conditioning, energy, beliefs, and no doubt more. While it was kind of pleasant to have no pain for a week, now that it's back it got me to move upstairs last night, off the lumpy pull-out couch mattress. I didn't mean to suggest ignoring the pains. I was just ruminating about how your experience could lead to the realization that whether or not the pains are a particular bother may be up to you and what you do with your attention, and I was talking about as it applies to pain in general and not implying anything about how much it bothers you. |
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Post by quinn on May 10, 2013 15:42:17 GMT -8
Sheesh, first vertigo and then also stomach issues, pain, slurred speech?? that's an unwelcome cocktail, I'd say. Are they chalking that all up to that lathryngoitis or whatever you called it? labrynthitis - fancy name for inflammation of the inner ear. And, yeah, they are so far cause they eliminated stroke & tumor. ENT said if I get any new symptoms he'll look further, but right now all those symptoms are classic labrynthitis. Who knew? Also asked him what could have caused it and he just shook his head. Unknown. Lots of diseases can cause it, but I don't have signs of any of those. Yet BTW, I asked him about the Benedryl and he said that can work for some vertigo, but not one with these symptoms. Typing is easier!! Yea! |
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Post by quinn on May 10, 2013 16:44:18 GMT -8
Well, your first paragraph could be true. I can't agree with the extrapolation in the second, though. It's true that giving pain an undue amount of attention can make it seem more acute. And turning attention away from pain can be a temporary relief, depending on how strong it is. But physical pain is a natural and useful messenger, telling us that something isn't right with the body. Turning attention away is ignoring the message. Done on a regular basis, whatever's wrong usually escalates. Chronic physical pain is a big broad subject - there are a lot of components to it and they can overlap like crazy. Thoughts, attention, body chemistry and physiology, environment, conditioning, energy, beliefs, and no doubt more. While it was kind of pleasant to have no pain for a week, now that it's back it got me to move upstairs last night, off the lumpy pull-out couch mattress. I didn't mean to suggest ignoring the pains. I was just ruminating about how your experience could lead to the realization that whether or not the pains are a particular bother may be up to you and what you do with your attention, and I was talking about as it applies to pain in general and not implying anything about how much it bothers you.I guess I don't see the difference between "removing attention from those pains" and ignoring those pains. Yeah, I got that you were ruminating about pain in general. I didn't think you were applying it personally to my bothered-ness level. I was also ruminating in general, but about turning attention away from pain. |
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Post by Reefs on May 17, 2013 7:13:48 GMT -8
Thanks! I think my little vacation is nearly over. Yes, it was all really fascinating (once my stomach righted itself - a long 21 hours there). The repair job was going on before I could notice it much because my thinking mind mostly shut down. Speech was slurred at first and my sense of time was gone. Then that got better but it was difficult to find words, could print but not use cursive, usual aches and pains were gone. It's like all unnecessary systems shut down to put resources in the critical zone. That was the first 4 days. After that it was all about lining up walls, floors & movement. Pain came back a few days ago, readable cursive just yesterday. I'm almost an adult! ;D Sheesh, first vertigo and then also stomach issues, pain, slurred speech?? that's an unwelcome cocktail, I'd say. A re they chalking that all up to that lathryngoitis or whatever you called it?Could just be overexposure to schizophasia on spiritual forums...  |
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Post by Portto on May 23, 2013 3:54:21 GMT -8
Good to hear you're making progress. Reminds me a little of Milton Erickson, the 'founder'/'inventor' of a technique that later became known as NLP. He had polio as a young adult and spend a long time in bed. Apart from rolling his eyes he really couldn't do anything. He had a little sister that used to play in his room so he was watching her since he couldn't do anything else anyway. And so he watched her closely and recognized certain patterns in human behavior and language which he later used as a therapist. Thank you for posting about him (never heard about him before)! I read his wikipedia page and found it very interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_EricksonMilton was a lot into hypnosis/trance. I recognized many of the techniques mentioned on his page in Andrey's posts, and it's funny that I and Enigma were always telling Andrey that he was trying to hypnotize us. Milton's "Trance Model" is in a way similar to the "Dream Model." The trance/dream state is very common. Maybe the biggest dream is that we are independent separate individuals. To paraphrase Milton & E.A. Poe: "It's all a trance within a dream." |
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Post by Reefs on May 25, 2013 7:16:09 GMT -8
Good to hear you're making progress. Reminds me a little of Milton Erickson, the 'founder'/'inventor' of a technique that later became known as NLP. He had polio as a young adult and spend a long time in bed. Apart from rolling his eyes he really couldn't do anything. He had a little sister that used to play in his room so he was watching her since he couldn't do anything else anyway. And so he watched her closely and recognized certain patterns in human behavior and language which he later used as a therapist. Thank you for posting about him (never heard about him before)! I read his wikipedia page and found it very interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_EricksonMilton was a lot into hypnosis/trance. I recognized many of the techniques mentioned on his page in Andrey's posts, and it's funny that I and Enigma were always telling Andrey that he was trying to hypnotize us. Milton's "Trance Model" is in a way similar to the "Dream Model." The trance/dream state is very common. Maybe the biggest dream is that we are independent separate individuals.To paraphrase Milton & E.A. Poe: "It's all a trance within a dream." Erickson had some linguistic tools that really worked to get the job done, i.e. to change the patient's vantage point significantly and permanently. And that usually happens when the patient is doing the work or at least is under the illusion of doing the work all by himself/herself. So an important part of trance language patterns is to keep up the illusion of choice/being in charge with a lot of linguistic trickery.  There are some videos with Erickson out there. He was usually just chatting, often not even with the one he wanted to go into trance. He could kinda ignore that one. He was just chatting nicely with someone else. He was a great storyteller. And the stories were an important part of his 'technique'. So he could just chat with someone sitting to his right about his childhood and suddenly the one to his left would go into a deep trance. The 'trick' was to know about the story the one sitting to his left was unconsciously working on and then telling a story which - at face value - had nothing to do with anything anyone sitting there actually came for but a story that had a few triggers that would make the one sitting to his left rezz wildly.  Erickson was quite a character. He was very spontaneous and flexible in his approach. He didn't really have a system or something. He didn't always use hypnosis. I remember a story about him where he let one of his patients (a manic depressive if I remember correctly) live with his family for about a month and let him sleep outside in the backyard at night, let him chop wood and let him do most of their daily chores. After a month or two that patient suddenly made up his mind and wanted to move on. He was 'cured'. |
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Post by Portto on May 31, 2013 3:28:07 GMT -8
Definitely a cool guy this Erickson. We could say that he was out of the regular dream.
And we could say this happened because of his paralysis episode, which left him with the observer/noticer mode only.
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Post by Portto on Jul 26, 2013 8:02:11 GMT -8
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Jul 27, 2013 20:03:06 GMT -8
I'd put "to be or not to be?" outside the outer circle as the thought that makes the dreamer and "to thine own self be true" at the center of the dream.
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