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Post by Reefs on Mar 31, 2014 6:50:13 GMT -8
Being free from the belief in separation sounds nice. Seemingly, there's two types of beliefs that we can forumlate, conscious and unconscious. The religious fanatic will likely tell you about some firmly established beliefs, and if you were to tell that fanatic that freedom is the absence of those beliefs, they just might chop your head off. These are beliefs which the identity are tied up in, and the reason they exist relatively is because their presence is desirable even if limiting. The question is, how and why do such beliefs formulate. Obviously similar structures are erected in the spiritual game, as the idea that everything is one and that the individual is that one cascade out beyond the already existing belief structures to provide the emotional body with some distance from an experience which can only be interpreted as conditions separate from a conditioned self. The last thing the mind identification wants is the loss of identity, such that moving the belief line outward into some transcendent conceptual framework actually serves to prevent coming empty than not. When you factor in experiential glimpses of oneness and the like you have an ongoing experience which can confirm the relative truth of a belief structure which is often erected under the guise of not believing in anything or the idea that nothing is ultimately true. There is an energetic movement which leads to the creation of conscious belief structures, as much present in the religious fanatic as the latest pop de jour spiritual guru, and that is the conditioned mechanical tendency to break off from one's own line of thinking, leading to an unconscious mind and a conscious one. That break in thinking leads to an energetic barrier, as thoughts and feelings mechanically oriented to happen are denied the chance to do so. The rebound effect from that break leads to conscious belief structures and the unconscious energy which keeps them in place. Meaning, the religious fanatic might tell you about all sorts of beliefs, but in actuality he has no idea why he believes what he does. Becoming conscious of how and why would be the end of the belief, which isn't the inability to entertain an idea, just the absence of the limitation experienced through that entertainment.It's this volition thingy again.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 31, 2014 6:55:12 GMT -8
If we're going to use the word guise then sure, the idea that nothing is believed on the conscious level can be (as opposed to must be) proof that something is believed unconsciously. This doesn't implicitly mean that the idea of not believing in anything to describe a mind state or dynamic mode of thought means the same thing. I would say the former guise is far more common than the latter description, however. Are you talking about beliefs in general or just beliefs regarding existential questions/spiritualtity?
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Post by jettikai2 on Apr 1, 2014 9:58:51 GMT -8
Being free from the belief in separation sounds nice. Seemingly, there's two types of beliefs that we can forumlate, conscious and unconscious. The religious fanatic will likely tell you about some firmly established beliefs, and if you were to tell that fanatic that freedom is the absence of those beliefs, they just might chop your head off. These are beliefs which the identity are tied up in, and the reason they exist relatively is because their presence is desirable even if limiting. The question is, how and why do such beliefs formulate. Obviously similar structures are erected in the spiritual game, as the idea that everything is one and that the individual is that one cascade out beyond the already existing belief structures to provide the emotional body with some distance from an experience which can only be interpreted as conditions separate from a conditioned self. The last thing the mind identification wants is the loss of identity, such that moving the belief line outward into some transcendent conceptual framework actually serves to prevent coming empty than not. When you factor in experiential glimpses of oneness and the like you have an ongoing experience which can confirm the relative truth of a belief structure which is often erected under the guise of not believing in anything or the idea that nothing is ultimately true. There is an energetic movement which leads to the creation of conscious belief structures, as much present in the religious fanatic as the latest pop de jour spiritual guru, and that is the conditioned mechanical tendency to break off from one's own line of thinking, leading to an unconscious mind and a conscious one. That break in thinking leads to an energetic barrier, as thoughts and feelings mechanically oriented to happen are denied the chance to do so. The rebound effect from that break leads to conscious belief structures and the unconscious energy which keeps them in place. Meaning, the religious fanatic might tell you about all sorts of beliefs, but in actuality he has no idea why he believes what he does. Becoming conscious of how and why would be the end of the belief, which isn't the inability to entertain an idea, just the absence of the limitation experienced through that entertainment.It's this volition thingy again. What do you mean?
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Post by jettikai2 on Apr 1, 2014 10:06:49 GMT -8
If we're going to use the word guise then sure, the idea that nothing is believed on the conscious level can be (as opposed to must be) proof that something is believed unconsciously. This doesn't implicitly mean that the idea of not believing in anything to describe a mind state or dynamic mode of thought means the same thing. I would say the former guise is far more common than the latter description, however. Are you talking about beliefs in general or just beliefs regarding existential questions/spiritualtity? Spirchool, although my original post (a few back) was referencing both. Meaning, spiritual beliefs can be just surface level refractions of unconscious crud (unconscious beliefs), which tend to have nothing to do with spirituality and a lot more to do with the person thingy.
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Post by Reefs on Apr 13, 2014 2:18:01 GMT -8
It's this volition thingy again. What do you mean? I see the issue of 'why you believe what you believe' as being connected to the question of volition.
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Post by jettikai2 on Apr 16, 2014 23:15:32 GMT -8
Sure and how you're conditioned. I was saying that the unconscious mind (if there was such a thing) can manifest as a conscious belief structure.
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Apr 18, 2014 5:55:58 GMT -8
Sure and how you're conditioned. I was saying that the unconscious mind (if there was such a thing) can manifest as a conscious belief structure. ---- Hey Jason, is the Ukraine siteeation edgin' nerves over in the Caucuses? You still over there man?
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