burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Nov 3, 2013 21:59:30 GMT -8
You've got lots of courage, man! Nobody dared touch that phrase, while you take a swing right at it and blow it out of proportion!  |
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Nov 3, 2013 22:02:06 GMT -8
hahaha -- yes. That is a meaty theme. Maybe this is more for your wife than for you but here goes. At some point the loss of our faculties as we age gets to a point where things can’t get better and can only get worse. I remember very clearly looking out the window of a prop plane over Tampa Bay on one of the several trips I made down to Florida to aid my parents. While I was glad to help it was always kind of a downer to put things on hold and make the long trip toward illness and suffering. In that instant it occurred to me that at each step along the way, with each loss, I had become nostalgic for the step previous, even though I’d greeted each loss with such grief at the time it was fresh. At my best, I remember telling my dad a few times as he expressed anxiety about not knowing where or who he was (Alzheimer’s) that he’d done alot for others when he was younger that he couldn’t remember now, and that they would repay the debt for him now, so he shouldn’t worry so. Wish I done that every day. Bottom line is that there is a natural resistance to the process of dying that just isn’t necessary and that can rob us of the opportunity to give back to our parents some of a debt that can never really be fully repaid. Don’t know where you wife is on all of this but figured, who can’t use a little unsolicited and overly maudlin advice from time to time?  |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 4, 2013 8:28:24 GMT -8
hahaha -- yes. That is a meaty theme. Maybe this is more for your wife than for you but here goes. At some point the loss of our faculties as we age gets to a point where things can’t get better and can only get worse. I remember very clearly looking out the window of a prop plane over Tampa Bay on one of the several trips I made down to Florida to aid my parents. While I was glad to help it was always kind of a downer to put things on hold and make the long trip toward illness and suffering. In that instant it occurred to me that at each step along the way, with each loss, I had become nostalgic for the step previous, even though I’d greeted each loss with such grief at the time it was fresh. At my best, I remember telling my dad a few times as he expressed anxiety about not knowing where or who he was (Alzheimer’s) that he’d done alot for others when he was younger that he couldn’t remember now, and that they would repay the debt for him now, so he shouldn’t worry so. Wish I done that every day. Bottom line is that there is a natural resistance to the process of dying that just isn’t necessary and that can rob us of the opportunity to give back to our parents some of a debt that can never really be fully repaid. Don’t know where you wife is on all of this but figured, who can’t use a little unsolicited and overly maudlin advice from time to time? The only help that works is empowering others. |
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Post by humphrey on Nov 4, 2013 8:51:51 GMT -8
Maybe this is more for your wife than for you but here goes. At some point the loss of our faculties as we age gets to a point where things can’t get better and can only get worse. I remember very clearly looking out the window of a prop plane over Tampa Bay on one of the several trips I made down to Florida to aid my parents. While I was glad to help it was always kind of a downer to put things on hold and make the long trip toward illness and suffering. In that instant it occurred to me that at each step along the way, with each loss, I had become nostalgic for the step previous, even though I’d greeted each loss with such grief at the time it was fresh. At my best, I remember telling my dad a few times as he expressed anxiety about not knowing where or who he was (Alzheimer’s) that he’d done alot for others when he was younger that he couldn’t remember now, and that they would repay the debt for him now, so he shouldn’t worry so. Wish I done that every day. Bottom line is that there is a natural resistance to the process of dying that just isn’t necessary and that can rob us of the opportunity to give back to our parents some of a debt that can never really be fully repaid. Don’t know where you wife is on all of this but figured, who can’t use a little unsolicited and overly maudlin advice from time to time? The only help that works is empowering others. I don't know exactly what that means in the case of Alzheimers. When my Grandmother had it and lived with us, I frequently lied to her. The confusion and despair that resulted from knowing the truth -- that she was living with us and no longer in her own home and that she had been living with us for two years (all direct answers to her questions)-- just seemed unnecessary and ineffective (because the same questions would return). A simple answer like "just here for the holidays, can I help you to the bathroom?" was a lie that was much more effective at dispelling confusion. Or when she hallucinated, going with the content of the hallucination as she articulated it rather than telling her what was really going on. I suppose one could argue that this sort of enabling of unreality just exacerbated the dementia. It seemed very natural though. |
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Post by humphrey on Nov 4, 2013 9:20:53 GMT -8
Far be it for me to deny confusion, but if you see some confusion there, please share. The way you told the story, it sounded like wrong place wrong time to me. Your timing seemed a little off or else she would have got the message right away. Every time your timing is off a little, this means your awareness is off a little, too. So that somehow what you are trying to convey and what you are actually conveying is not a match. You can say soothing and encouraging words but if the vibe behind the words says something different, then that's what determines the outcome. That's why for many affirmations and positive thinking doesn't work. It's really not about listening and finding the right words and such. You have to take a step further back. Back to how you see the other, back to the belief/point of view level that determines your decisions and actions. Just for the sake of dramatic effect and clarification: Do you see the other as broken and in need of fixing or as the magnificent being that she actually is? If you tweak it from there, you don't have to worry about the right actions/decisions anymore. That's why making this list of positive aspects can be very effective. Yes, I can see that sort of stratospheric perspective as being much more effective. I think you're right also, that there was a slight disconnect between my words and my attention or perspective or awareness at the moment. I think I was doing dishes at the time and not really facing her, for example. I didn't fully realize the particular tumult she was in until my words seeded the storm clouds. If I had been more stratospheric I could have seen the cumulonimbus building into the black anvils the eventually hammered me whilst gripped in red hot tongs. And I do see it as helpful to see her not as some sort of ever-changing weather pattern but the sky itself. Pardon the clichés. Of course for the regular bloke that I am, still en-wrapped in my own story I suppose, this sort of timely rocketing into the stratosphere is something that does require time. 'Breathe' he says to himself, 'ATA....' I suppose if I had been ATAing while doing the dishes instead of being caught up in whatever mind circus was going on, I could have heard her words for what they were, already being in the stratosphere. |
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Post by humphrey on Nov 4, 2013 9:28:34 GMT -8
hahaha -- yes. That is a meaty theme. Really? Do yo see some kind of relation to that and the recent storm and the ski pole story back then? Are these events the same or different on a feeling level? I think the issue for her is stress. Her mom moving in, her relationship with her sister, job, parenting...it's all overwhelming. The way these incidences are related is that there is an intensity of emotional outburst that seems to be based on very little. It's always the straw that broke the camel's back, and the camel goes down in a fury. |
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Post by humphrey on Nov 4, 2013 9:33:06 GMT -8
hahaha -- yes. That is a meaty theme. Maybe this is more for your wife than for you but here goes. At some point the loss of our faculties as we age gets to a point where things can’t get better and can only get worse. I remember very clearly looking out the window of a prop plane over Tampa Bay on one of the several trips I made down to Florida to aid my parents. While I was glad to help it was always kind of a downer to put things on hold and make the long trip toward illness and suffering. In that instant it occurred to me that at each step along the way, with each loss, I had become nostalgic for the step previous, even though I’d greeted each loss with such grief at the time it was fresh. At my best, I remember telling my dad a few times as he expressed anxiety about not knowing where or who he was (Alzheimer’s) that he’d done alot for others when he was younger that he couldn’t remember now, and that they would repay the debt for him now, so he shouldn’t worry so. Wish I done that every day. Bottom line is that there is a natural resistance to the process of dying that just isn’t necessary and that can rob us of the opportunity to give back to our parents some of a debt that can never really be fully repaid. Don’t know where you wife is on all of this but figured, who can’t use a little unsolicited and overly maudlin advice from time to time? That more describes my own Mother and her state. Though, her body is crumbling and her mind is still in tact, but I travel to see her. My mother in law is still in good shape, though financially not able to support herself any longer. There should be a net positive in the short term at least, in that she can do some child care duties for us now and then, and hence ease some of the pressure off my dear wife. We get along great. Still aging illness sickness and death, can't get past that particular terminus. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 5, 2013 6:53:04 GMT -8
The only help that works is empowering others. I don't know exactly what that means in the case of Alzheimers. When my Grandmother had it and lived with us, I frequently lied to her. The confusion and despair that resulted from knowing the truth -- that she was living with us and no longer in her own home and that she had been living with us for two years (all direct answers to her questions)-- just seemed unnecessary and ineffective (because the same questions would return). A simple answer like "just here for the holidays, can I help you to the bathroom?" was a lie that was much more effective at dispelling confusion. Or when she hallucinated, going with the content of the hallucination as she articulated it rather than telling her what was really going on. I suppose one could argue that this sort of enabling of unreality just exacerbated the dementia. It seemed very natural though. I said that in a general way. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 5, 2013 7:19:45 GMT -8
The way you told the story, it sounded like wrong place wrong time to me. Your timing seemed a little off or else she would have got the message right away. Every time your timing is off a little, this means your awareness is off a little, too. So that somehow what you are trying to convey and what you are actually conveying is not a match. You can say soothing and encouraging words but if the vibe behind the words says something different, then that's what determines the outcome. That's why for many affirmations and positive thinking doesn't work. It's really not about listening and finding the right words and such. You have to take a step further back. Back to how you see the other, back to the belief/point of view level that determines your decisions and actions. Just for the sake of dramatic effect and clarification: Do you see the other as broken and in need of fixing or as the magnificent being that she actually is? If you tweak it from there, you don't have to worry about the right actions/decisions anymore. That's why making this list of positive aspects can be very effective. Yes, I can see that sort of stratospheric perspective as being much more effective. I think you're right also, that there was a slight disconnect between my words and my attention or perspective or awareness at the moment. I think I was doing dishes at the time and not really facing her, for example. I didn't fully realize the particular tumult she was in until my words seeded the storm clouds. If I had been more stratospheric I could have seen the cumulonimbus building into the black anvils the eventually hammered me whilst gripped in red hot tongs. And I do see it as helpful to see her not as some sort of ever-changing weather pattern but the sky itself. Pardon the clichés. Of course for the regular bloke that I am, still en-wrapped in my own story I suppose, this sort of timely rocketing into the stratosphere is something that does require time. 'Breathe' he says to himself, 'ATA....' I suppose if I had been ATAing while doing the dishes instead of being caught up in whatever mind circus was going on, I could have heard her words for what they were, already being in the stratosphere. The work is done before the event when you are alone. When the storm is there, it's too late for ATA. In the A-H teachings they have this concept of 'pre-paving' which basically means play it out in your mind the way you want it to be ahead of time. Now, on the surface that is going to look like denial. If you do it right, however, you'll come in touch with your core intentions - which are rather general. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 5, 2013 7:32:38 GMT -8
Really? Do yo see some kind of relation to that and the recent storm and the ski pole story back then? Are these events the same or different on a feeling level? I think the issue for her is stress. Her mom moving in, her relationship with her sister, job, parenting...it's all overwhelming. The way these incidences are related is that there is an intensity of emotional outburst that seems to be based on very little. It's always the straw that broke the camel's back, and the camel goes down in a fury. I was actually asking about your own feeling level. But never mind. Overwhelment is usually the case when someone relies to much on action which basically points back to insecurity or lack of trust, hands-on management so to speak. |
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wren
Member
Posts: 17
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Post by wren on Nov 16, 2013 14:16:35 GMT -8
Really? Do yo see some kind of relation to that and the recent storm and the ski pole story back then? Are these events the same or different on a feeling level? I think the issue for her is stress. Her mom moving in, her relationship with her sister, job, parenting...it's all overwhelming. The way these incidences are related is that there is an intensity of emotional outburst that seems to be based on very little. It's always the straw that broke the camel's back, and the camel goes down in a fury. |
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Post by Portto on Nov 18, 2013 10:40:49 GMT -8
You've got lots of courage, man! Nobody dared touch that phrase, while you take a swing right at it and blow it out of proportion! You're getting there: just a tiny little bit smaller font... |
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Post by humphrey on Nov 19, 2013 5:50:23 GMT -8
I think the issue for her is stress. Her mom moving in, her relationship with her sister, job, parenting...it's all overwhelming. The way these incidences are related is that there is an intensity of emotional outburst that seems to be based on very little. It's always the straw that broke the camel's back, and the camel goes down in a fury. Noted. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 25, 2013 8:03:19 GMT -8
I think the issue for her is stress. Her mom moving in, her relationship with her sister, job, parenting...it's all overwhelming. The way these incidences are related is that there is an intensity of emotional outburst that seems to be based on very little. It's always the straw that broke the camel's back, and the camel goes down in a fury. Nice find. Interesting subtleties.  |
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Post by humphrey on Nov 26, 2013 7:38:50 GMT -8
Taking down the avatar of two warriors may help your marriage. Nice find. Interesting subtleties.  |
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