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Post by humphrey on Jan 17, 2013 12:43:47 GMT -8
Everyone enters a relationship with the hope of being loved, accepted and appreciated for what they are rather than what another may want them to be, and ironically, this is the key to your own satisfaction and happiness as well. Just this morning I had a spat with my wife that seems based on expectations. Basically she feels like I don't support her or acknowledge the degree of complexity and difficulty in her life. This indictment was precipitated by my forgetting that she had told me days ago that she was going to make pizza today for the kids. I used the shredded mozz cheese when I made some scrambled eggs for her and the kids and used some for one of the kids' lunch (quesadilla). This is high stakes because it is one of the only meals that they will eat that is low prep and can thus fit with her very busy work-at-home day. "There isn't much pizza cheese left...I used some for the eggs and lunch" I said, putting it out there so that we could pick up more when needed. "What? you know I needed that for todays pizza!" she freaked. "No I didn't know" "Yes you knew, we talked about it. You knew I was going to have to use mozz cheese today!" "It was not present in my awareness that you would be needing the cheese today!" "We talked about it and therefore you knew. The fact that you forgot doesn't mean you didn't know." "I'm sorry, I'll try and think it through more next time." "I work hard every day and you don't seem to appreciate that enough to think things through..." Manifestations of the relationship crucible.  This is still a live issue actually, meaning we need to talk about it some more. This is just a short tip of the iceberg that happened in the spat. Her expectation is that I will be fully tuned into the stress of her daily life so that I will be pro-actively thinking of solutions to ease the stress in her life. But I have expectations too. I expect that my partner won't get super frustrated when I don't meet her expectations. So I get defensive. So funny it hurts. |
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Post by james on Jan 17, 2013 13:16:02 GMT -8
This came to mind (simply that, not recommending it or saying there are meaningful parallels - I've not read it, I just remembered the title)!  "Angered and annoyed (at the expected cheese being missing), Hem demands, "Who moved my cheese?" The humans have counted on the cheese supply to be constant, and so are unprepared for this eventuality. After deciding that the cheese is indeed gone they get angry at the unfairness of the situation ... Starting to realize the situation at hand, Haw thinks of a search for new cheese. But Hem is dead set in his victimized mindset and dismisses the proposal." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F |
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Post by humphrey on Jan 17, 2013 13:35:18 GMT -8
I wish I had only moved it!
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Post by silvery1 on Jan 17, 2013 13:47:16 GMT -8
I wish I had only moved it! Hiya - Just trying on the guest garb... One can only hope that this is one of those 'silly' arguments that ends up maybe 2-3 weeks down the line as one of the situations you both finally see the humor in it. If only they all ended up like that. I think it's rather paradoxical that an argument about missing cheese is so serious - during my stint as a court reporter, I once did one where a guy shot and killed his roomie and friend because of the radio being too loud. I wish you and your mate a speedy recovery. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2013 14:59:08 GMT -8
Everyone enters a relationship with the hope of being loved, accepted and appreciated for what they are rather than what another may want them to be, and ironically, this is the key to your own satisfaction and happiness as well. Just this morning I had a spat with my wife that seems based on expectations. Basically she feels like I don't support her or acknowledge the degree of complexity and difficulty in her life. This indictment was precipitated by my forgetting that she had told me days ago that she was going to make pizza today for the kids. I used the shredded mozz cheese when I made some scrambled eggs for her and the kids and used some for one of the kids' lunch (quesadilla). This is high stakes because it is one of the only meals that they will eat that is low prep and can thus fit with her very busy work-at-home day. "There isn't much pizza cheese left...I used some for the eggs and lunch" I said, putting it out there so that we could pick up more when needed. "What? you know I needed that for todays pizza!" she freaked. "No I didn't know" "Yes you knew, we talked about it. You knew I was going to have to use mozz cheese today!" "It was not present in my awareness that you would be needing the cheese today!" "We talked about it and therefore you knew. The fact that you forgot doesn't mean you didn't know." "I'm sorry, I'll try and think it through more next time." "I work hard every day and you don't seem to appreciate that enough to think things through..." Manifestations of the relationship crucible. This is still a live issue actually, meaning we need to talk about it some more. This is just a short tip of the iceberg that happened in the spat. Her expectation is that I will be fully tuned into the stress of her daily life so that I will be pro-actively thinking of solutions to ease the stress in her life. But I have expectations too. I expect that my partner won't get super frustrated when I don't meet her expectations. So I get defensive. So funny it hurts. That's a great example of expectations taking over. In addition to the external dialog, one can almost hear the internal dialog that led to it as well: 'Wait....so you just do whatever you want and disregard what I say and what I need? And you're not even sorry? You just casually add it to the shopping list as though you haven't dismissed me entirely. You know we're going to keep talking about this until it's clear that you're taking me deadly seriously and that you admit I clearly told you about the cheese and that you are truly sorry. You obviously think this house runs by itself and nothing I do or say is important. You never listen to me. Nothing I say is important. This is NOT going to happen again!' Of course you know I'm just making it up, so apologies for any and all mischaracterizations, but the drama wouldn't be uncommon. This is why I say 'come empty'. There may well be years of unfulfilled expectations behind that empty cheese container, so it's not even about that. That's just the straw that broke the giraffes back. The belief we have is that if we don't keep working on getting our expectations fulfilled, that we'll become slaves to our partner's, but ironically, the reason you probly forgot about the cheese is likely an unconscious reaction to the expectations. If everybody just drops them, there's a 'space' that opens up that includes a great deal of appreciation, respect, harmony, understanding, and consideration, and it's all effortless. |
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burt
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Post by burt on Jan 17, 2013 15:07:11 GMT -8
I expect that my partner won't get super frustrated when I don't meet her expectations. So I get defensive. So funny it hurts. I'll never forget the first time I noticed the silent internal expression of ... "who's this 'piece of sh!t' she's referring to?" ... get answered with ( __________________) right as my wife was goin' off on me full bore. Since then, expressed in Tolle-speak, the frequency and amplitude of the resonances of our pain bodies has diminished and continues to attenuate over time. Also, since then, I've witnessed frustration, rage and anger expressed at burt apparently get returned by burt with what a characterizer might characterize as "various strategies". It's never about the cheese, but, when on the surface at least, it is about the cheese .... hey, it's about the cheese ffs. Without kids over here, those times when the "viel of the cheese" falls away there arise opportunities to address the underlying expectations more openly ... perhaps more frequently given the greater privacy. They are what they are, these expectations. You know, you don't always have to be infinitely patient and gentle in dealing with the energy that they're delivered with, even if that energy ultimately has no target. From what I've seen, sometimes the apparent source of this stuff just needs a really shiny mirror ... seems to me to sometimes lead to authentic disapation of what isn't authentic as long the mirror's held at arms length and I stay there 100% and remain really attentive and don't source any of it from burt. |
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Post by sufilight on Jan 17, 2013 17:46:43 GMT -8
She may have felt frustrated in not being able to nurture the kids as she had planned with the yummy pizza -well at least this was my initial reaction but I am aware I am projecting.  I feel very content and in a loving space when preparing a meal, but not every woman (or man) feels the way I do. Being in a relationship where there are no expectations has ironically led to meeting all my 'needs'. I told Phil today when we were discussing relationships, that not once in the years we have been together have I questioned whether I am happy with him or not, it's a given I am, so the question doesn't occur to me. I realized with more clarity today, that when we are not creating separation with expectations, the mind does not have anything to latch on in order to for to confirm something is 'wrong' with our partner and that he/she needs to change. |
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Post by beingist on Jan 17, 2013 18:02:28 GMT -8
Mmmm. Pizza. Back in a bit.  |
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Post by silvery1 on Jan 17, 2013 18:03:52 GMT -8
She may have felt frustrated in not being able to nurture the kids as she had planned with the yummy pizza -well at least this was my initial reaction but I am aware I am projecting. I feel very content and in a loving space when preparing a meal, but not every woman (or man) feels the way I do. Being in a relationship where there are no expectations has ironically led to meeting all my 'needs'. I told Phil today when we were discussing relationships, that not once in the years we have been together have I questioned whether I am happy with him or not, it's a given I am, so the question doesn't occur to me. I realized with more clarity today that when we are not creating separation with expectations, the mind does not have anything to latch on in order to for to confirm something is 'wrong' with our partner and that he/she needs to change . Right-nice post, sufilight. The first couple of sentences brought something to the surface that applies to many - self included - where the situation may have brought up a competition of sorts - one parent feels inferior for what-ever reasons (insecurity, unaired resentments, etc.) and the dad gets to look better in the kids' eyes because his meals were nice and cheesy and she's facing looking at the prospect of serving her kids less than full cheeziness on her pizza. I hope that makes at least some sense - it could play into the dynamic that's happening there. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 17, 2013 18:34:22 GMT -8
Clear signs of overwhelment, Hump. She has more things on her to do list for a day than 10 people could ever accomplish in a week kinda thing, I guess. She had a perfect plan and you screwed that perfect plan up. She had not plan B. That makes you so malevolent. However, it has nothing to do with what you do or don't do that lets her freak out. She would have found something else if the cheese wasn't the issue, maybe the way you breathe or walk or whatever. ;D |
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Post by sufilight on Jan 17, 2013 18:48:57 GMT -8
She may have felt frustrated in not being able to nurture the kids as she had planned with the yummy pizza -well at least this was my initial reaction but I am aware I am projecting. I feel very content and in a loving space when preparing a meal, but not every woman (or man) feels the way I do ( my mother used to hate cooking). Being in a relationship where there are no expectations has ironically led to meeting all my 'needs'. I told Phil today when we were discussing relationships, that not once in the years we have been together have I questioned whether I am happy with him or not, it's a given I am, so the question doesn't occur to me. I realized with more clarity today that when we are not creating separation with expectations, the mind does not have anything to latch on in order to confirm something is 'wrong' with our partner and that he/she needs to change. Right-nice post, sufilight. The first couple of sentences brought something to the surface that applies to many - self included - where the situation may have brought up a competition of sorts - one parent feels inferior for what-ever reasons (insecurity, unaired resentments, etc.) and the dad gets to look better in the kids' eyes because his meals were nice and cheesy and she's facing looking at the prospect of serving her kids less than full cheeziness on her pizza. I hope that makes at least some sense - it could play into the dynamic that's happening there. Silvery, Had not thought of this, and it's a possibility with many parents. We all have dynamics to address and it's funny how a simple misunderstanding can trigger reactions that do not seem to make sense. What a strange and curious lot we humans are. lol |
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Post by silvery1 on Jan 17, 2013 18:55:41 GMT -8
Silvery, Had not thought of this, and it's a possibility with many parents. We all have dynamics to address and it's funny how a simple misunderstanding can trigger reactions that do not seem to make sense. What a strange and curious lot we humans are. lol Yes, those emotions are tough tigers to tame...it helps to plan ahead but first one has to admit to what's going on inside. |
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Post by spongey on Jan 18, 2013 4:33:37 GMT -8
Clear signs of overwhelment, Hump. She has more things on her to do list for a day than 10 people could ever accomplish in a week kinda thing, I guess. She had a perfect plan and you screwed that perfect plan up. She had not plan B. That makes you so malevolent. However, it has nothing to do with what you do or don't do that lets her freak out. She would have found something else if the cheese wasn't the issue, maybe the way you breathe or walk or whatever. ;D I was sort of going to say this. Sometimes, as a woman, I just get angry and it doesn't matter what the issue is I can't control it. Having a hubby that just apologises is great, not saying I need a pushover but those bloody hormones can sometimes take over, the anger arises, then a story...something like: 'he thinks I'm not capable'. Other times I'd be like, yeah no worries, you're the best for feeding the kids...see what I'm saying. |
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Post by humphrey on Jan 18, 2013 9:59:09 GMT -8
Everyone enters a relationship with the hope of being loved, accepted and appreciated for what they are rather than what another may want them to be, and ironically, this is the key to your own satisfaction and happiness as well. Just this morning I had a spat with my wife that seems based on expectations. Basically she feels like I don't support her or acknowledge the degree of complexity and difficulty in her life. This indictment was precipitated by my forgetting that she had told me days ago that she was going to make pizza today for the kids. I used the shredded mozz cheese when I made some scrambled eggs for her and the kids and used some for one of the kids' lunch (quesadilla). This is high stakes because it is one of the only meals that they will eat that is low prep and can thus fit with her very busy work-at-home day. "There isn't much pizza cheese left...I used some for the eggs and lunch" I said, putting it out there so that we could pick up more when needed. "What? you know I needed that for todays pizza!" she freaked. "No I didn't know" "Yes you knew, we talked about it. You knew I was going to have to use mozz cheese today!" "It was not present in my awareness that you would be needing the cheese today!" "We talked about it and therefore you knew. The fact that you forgot doesn't mean you didn't know." "I'm sorry, I'll try and think it through more next time." "I work hard every day and you don't seem to appreciate that enough to think things through..." Manifestations of the relationship crucible. This is still a live issue actually, meaning we need to talk about it some more. This is just a short tip of the iceberg that happened in the spat. Her expectation is that I will be fully tuned into the stress of her daily life so that I will be pro-actively thinking of solutions to ease the stress in her life. But I have expectations too. I expect that my partner won't get super frustrated when I don't meet her expectations. So I get defensive. So funny it hurts. That's a great example of expectations taking over. In addition to the external dialog, one can almost hear the internal dialog that led to it as well: 'Wait....so you just do whatever you want and disregard what I say and what I need? And you're not even sorry? You just casually add it to the shopping list as though you haven't dismissed me entirely. You know we're going to keep talking about this until it's clear that you're taking me deadly seriously and that you admit I clearly told you about the cheese and that you are truly sorry. You obviously think this house runs by itself and nothing I do or say is important. You never listen to me. Nothing I say is important. This is NOT going to happen again!' Of course you know I'm just making it up, so apologies for any and all mischaracterizations, but the drama wouldn't be uncommon. This is why I say 'come empty'. There may well be years of unfulfilled expectations behind that empty cheese container, so it's not even about that. That's just the straw that broke the giraffes back. Yes, sometimes it feels like this the reasons being given (I used cheese = I don't appreciate the stress in her life) are really just an opportunity to let off steam. Unfortunately I don't see the steam being let out as reducing any internal pressure. I wish I could finance a month long spa vacation, a single income family (me), a housecleaner, etc. I think this is the elephant in the head. Not sure if it's constructive to broach this as a possibility. It's a good if. I'm still working on my own. |
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Post by humphrey on Jan 18, 2013 10:04:33 GMT -8
I expect that my partner won't get super frustrated when I don't meet her expectations. So I get defensive. So funny it hurts. I'll never forget the first time I noticed the silent internal expression of ... "who's this 'piece of sh!t' she's referring to?" ... get answered with ( __________________) right as my wife was goin' off on me full bore. Since then, expressed in Tolle-speak, the frequency and amplitude of the resonances of our pain bodies has diminished and continues to attenuate over time. Also, since then, I've witnessed frustration, rage and anger expressed at burt apparently get returned by burt with what a characterizer might characterize as "various strategies". It's never about the cheese, but, when on the surface at least, it is about the cheese .... hey, it's about the cheese ffs. Without kids over here, those times when the "viel of the cheese" falls away there arise opportunities to address the underlying expectations more openly ... perhaps more frequently given the greater privacy. Yes it's such a pressure cooker right now, there ain't even time to figure out ways to turn down the dial. We saw each other for a total of 20 minutes yesterday -- 15 of which involved arguing over the aforementioned cheese. The remaining 5 were literally passing in the night. I think even less well when angry. But pretending not to be is still worse. |
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