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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2013 20:14:13 GMT -8
'Inner peace', per se, is the Self, just being what it is.
The 'I' can be happy or unhappy, at any given moment. Yup. Happy/unhappy means intermediary present and commentary function enabled. Intermediary absent means no monitoring, no commentary so the happy/unhappy thingy doesn't even arise. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 20:37:28 GMT -8
That was my impression ... which is why, of course, I refrained from asking that question. Yet you still put it on the table.  He put it on the table and covered it with a towel because it didn't belong on the table.  |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 20:39:54 GMT -8
'Inner peace', per se, is the Self, just being what it is.
The 'I' can be happy or unhappy, at any given moment. Yup. Happy/unhappy means intermediary present and commentary function enabled. Intermediary absent means no monitoring, no commentary so the happy/unhappy thingy doesn't even arise. Yuppp. Try to get that across to your average bliss bunny.  |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2013 20:46:06 GMT -8
Yuppp. Try to get that across to your average bliss bunny. They usually try to disable the commentary function by installing a supermoderator. An intermediary inside job again. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 27, 2013 21:36:23 GMT -8
So, unhappyness can happens although not identified with it ? Yep. Yep. I got confused right now. I thought when you say you are in inner peace, this happy/unhappy movement came to an end. So this happy and unhappy movement is permanent in our life? Inner peace is when we are not being pulled by happy/unhappy roller coaster,Is it not? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 23:14:47 GMT -8
I got confused right now. I thought when you say you are in inner peace, this happy/unhappy movement came to an end. So this happy and unhappy movement is permanent in our life? Inner peace is when we are not being pulled by happy/unhappy roller coaster,Is it not? Unhappy is not suffering, it's just unhappy. When you watch a sad movie you are unhappy (sad). Are you suffering? Perhaps you are even enjoying the 'unhappy'? Notice that the feeling is labeled after the suffering happens. A feeling results in suffering, and you call that feeling unhappy because it is experienced to be suffering, not because the feeling itself somehow contains suffering. The roller coaster doesn't come to an end because feeling never ceases to be dualistic. You either feel everything or you feel nothing, and I don't think you want to feel nothing. However, to feel is not to suffer. Suffering depends on what you decide about the feeling. Suffering happens in the thoughts ABOUT feeling. We could say speerichool work is about changing those thoughts. It is NOT about feeling the right feelings. Peace is not a feeling, it's the absence of those thoughts that create suffering. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 27, 2013 23:46:00 GMT -8
"The roller coaster doesn't come to an end because feeling never ceases to be dualistic"
So Roller coaster always be there in life? Can't we completely eliminate this roller coaster?
I remember you having said "Love is possible only if we come out of this roller coaster" and you said "love is experienced without it's opposite", Is it not?
"Once the battle with perfecting ourselves is surrendered, it becomes possible, for the first time, to enter into genuine, loving, happy relationships with others, but it is not automatically so"
What do you mean by "perfecting ourselves is surrendered"? I thought it was about bringing the roller coaster to an end. Did i misunderstood?
Anger is not suffering unless i label it as suffering?
Raj
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Post by theo on Jan 28, 2013 0:03:27 GMT -8
"The roller coaster doesn't come to an end because feeling never ceases to be dualistic" That makes sense. Thank you. So Roller coaster always be there in life? Can't we completely eliminate this roller coaster? I remember you having said "Love is possible only if we come out of this roller coaster", Is it not?Raj Roller coaster is life. Love is being it (although not identified with it) |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 28, 2013 2:19:07 GMT -8
I find the explanations given here very confusing. Maybe it's dictionary time again. ;D
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Post by enigma on Jan 28, 2013 9:55:25 GMT -8
"The roller coaster doesn't come to an end because feeling never ceases to be dualistic" So Roller coaster always be there in life? Can't we completely eliminate this roller coaster? I remember you having said "Love is possible only if we come out of this roller coaster" and you said "love is experienced without it's opposite", Is it not? "Once the battle with perfecting ourselves is surrendered, it becomes possible, for the first time, to enter into genuine, loving, happy relationships with others, but it is not automatically so" What do you mean by "perfecting ourselves is surrendered"? I thought it was about bringing the roller coaster to an end. Did i misunderstood? Anger is not suffering unless i label it as suffering? Raj Yes, I think you've misunderstood. Feelings are dualistic, relative, mutually defining pairs. This is the roller coaster. Good feelings, then bad, then good. When one is trying to stay at the high, good spot in the ride, it's useful to notice this isn't possible, and that's why the analogy is used. What goes up must come down. That's how it must be. To suggest that this movement between polariities should stop is to say feeling should stop. Do you want to not feel anything? I don't mean to say that not feeling is the solution to bad feelings, rather that feelings themselves are not good and bad until we make them so, then label them bad. We then look at our labels and imagine that there is something inherently bad about the feeling and that they need to be avoided. Is sadness always suffering for you? Is fear always suffering? I'm not talking about terror and grief, which are the result of getting caught up in fear and sadness and turning them into suffering. Once we've done that, then we can give them labels like terror and grief and pretend that those are real separate feelings that have to be avoided by getting off the terror/grief roller coaster. In a way, you DO get off that roller coaster of imaginary good/bad feeling, but the goal is not to put an end to feeling. Feeling, itself, is part of life. It's not a problem to be solved. What we're talking about is not turning them into a problem. Does that make sense? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 28, 2013 9:57:54 GMT -8
"The roller coaster doesn't come to an end because feeling never ceases to be dualistic" That makes sense. Thank you. So Roller coaster always be there in life? Can't we completely eliminate this roller coaster? I remember you having said "Love is possible only if we come out of this roller coaster", Is it not?Raj Roller coaster is life. Love is being it (although not identified with it) Yes, I spose we could say that. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 28, 2013 20:53:48 GMT -8
Enigma,
Ok So where is Love in your concept? Is it the positive side of the roller coaster? Are you saying love is expressed when we are in a happy side of the roller coaster?
So Angry is not suffering unless i labeled it as suffering, Is this what you meant?
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Post by enigma on Jan 28, 2013 21:50:10 GMT -8
Enigma, Ok So where is Love in your concept? Is it the positive side of the roller coaster? Are you saying love is expressed when we are in a happy side of the roller coaster? Love isn't a dualistic feeling. You ARE Love. You don't have to find it, just stop pretending to be something else. Angry is already a label for a feeling you conjure up from your suffering. Suffering first, then the label of anger. Anger isn't 'out there' with a name tag on it waiting for you to experience it. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 29, 2013 0:03:36 GMT -8
Enigma, Ok So where is Love in your concept? Is it the positive side of the roller coaster? Are you saying love is expressed when we are in a happy side of the roller coaster? Love isn't a dualistic feeling. You ARE Love. You don't have to find it, just stop pretending to be something else. Angry is already a label for a feeling you conjure up from your suffering. Suffering first, then the label of anger. Anger isn't 'out there' with a name tag on it waiting for you to experience it. At what point of time would you consider Love is expressed without opposite when you are always being in roller coaster? "Angry is already a label for a feeling you conjure up from your suffering. " Then what do you mean by unhappy feeling if that was not suffering.Suffering is the feeling which I don't want to experience,isn't it? if so, unhappy is equal to suffering,is it not? Raj |
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Post by beingist on Jan 29, 2013 5:32:39 GMT -8
Love isn't a dualistic feeling. You ARE Love. You don't have to find it, just stop pretending to be something else. Angry is already a label for a feeling you conjure up from your suffering. Suffering first, then the label of anger. Anger isn't 'out there' with a name tag on it waiting for you to experience it. At what point of time would you consider Love is expressed without opposite when you are always being in roller coaster? "Angry is already a label for a feeling you conjure up from your suffering. " Then what do you mean by unhappy feeling if that was not suffering.Suffering is the feeling which I don't want to experience,isn't it? if so, unhappy is equal to suffering,is it not? Raj Happy/sad, pain/pleasure, joy/despair. These things still happen, because they are feelings, emotions. Suffering is in the identification with these feelings--believing that they are what you are. |
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