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Post by beingist on Jan 24, 2013 20:51:26 GMT -8
Mainly, I want the Truth. I can definitely relate to this. Definitely. What does it mean to you to say you want the Truth? (serious question). Ah, the perfectly pertinent question. I used to think that it meant that I just wanted to know everything. Then I thought it meant that I just wanted to know everything that was true. Then, I thought it meant that I just wanted to know Truth (with a capital T). Then, I realized that Truth is all there is, and so I AM the truth, and it blew all thinking about it totally out of the water.
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Post by silence on Jan 25, 2013 0:54:24 GMT -8
What does it mean to you to say you want the Truth? (serious question). It's a good question. It's an understanding of life I'm looking for I guess. I want to feel that I am not just these thoughts. I want to know it with my heart. There's a desire to understand life and there's a desire to be free from thought. Both of these desires are themselves movements of thought that keep you pulled in different directions like horses tied to opposing arms. Thought obviously doesn't know that it's not just these thoughts so it's best to stop looking there for confirmation.
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Post by spongey on Jan 25, 2013 5:25:53 GMT -8
Yep ok you guys are good! Sigh* it's this constant pull by the mind puts me off my scent constantly..damn it!
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Post by spongey on Jan 25, 2013 9:45:55 GMT -8
So mind imagines a controller/doer and time. These seem to be the major ...I'll call them 'obstacles'. Is it enough to just understand it though? I mean I can 'see' it, I can, but now I'm imagining that 'things' should seem different. I guess I'll have to sit with it more.
Thanks for your patience as always! :-)
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Post by beingist on Jan 25, 2013 10:01:11 GMT -8
So mind imagines a controller/doer and time. These seem to be the major ...I'll call them 'obstacles'. Is it enough to just understand it though? I mean I can 'see' it, I can, but now I'm imagining that 'things' should seem different. I guess I'll have to sit with it more. Thanks for your patience as always! :-) Mind imagines everything. That's what it does. It even imagines that it exists.
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Post by spongey on Jan 25, 2013 10:09:51 GMT -8
So mind imagines a controller/doer and time. These seem to be the major ...I'll call them 'obstacles'. Is it enough to just understand it though? I mean I can 'see' it, I can, but now I'm imagining that 'things' should seem different. I guess I'll have to sit with it more. Thanks for your patience as always! :-) Mind imagines everything. That's what it does. It even imagines that it exists. When I hear something like that, it's all so clear! Crystal. Why do I keep going round in circles like this?? (Anyway Australia day here tomorrow and visitors arriving so I don't suppose I'll have much time for online discussions. Then again...how could I possibly know that? S**t, I really can't know anything can I???)
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Post by beingist on Jan 25, 2013 10:10:46 GMT -8
Mind imagines everything. That's what it does. It even imagines that it exists. When I hear something like that, it's all so clear! Crystal. Why do I keep going round in circles like this?? (Anyway Australia day here tomorrow and visitors arriving so I don't suppose I'll have much time for online discussions. Then again...how could I possibly know that? S**t, I really can't know anything can I???) Nope.
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2013 11:22:05 GMT -8
So mind imagines a controller/doer and time. These seem to be the major ...I'll call them 'obstacles'. Is it enough to just understand it though? I mean I can 'see' it, I can, but now I'm imagining that 'things' should seem different. I guess I'll have to sit with it more. Thanks for your patience as always! :-) Sounds good. Imagining stuff isn't a problem. Believing what you imagine is. If you are believing things should be different, can you find some basis for believing that in the absence of a controller/doer anywhere?
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Post by spongey on Jan 25, 2013 15:34:29 GMT -8
So mind imagines a controller/doer and time. These seem to be the major ...I'll call them 'obstacles'. Is it enough to just understand it though? I mean I can 'see' it, I can, but now I'm imagining that 'things' should seem different. I guess I'll have to sit with it more. Thanks for your patience as always! :-) Sounds good. Imagining stuff isn't a problem. Believing what you imagine is. If you are believing things should be different, can you find some basis for believing that in the absence of a controller/doer anywhere? No if nobody there none of it makes much sense. This is minding am sure as I've heard this before but a lot of questions arise; 'what the point of this?' Also, 'how will my body function if I cease believing in thought?' 'Is it as simple as just dropping the belief? Like how my belief in Catholicsm has now changed?' I've read enough to know the answer to at least number one. My new sig: thought imagines all, just stop feeding the belief.
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2013 17:38:25 GMT -8
Sounds good. Imagining stuff isn't a problem. Believing what you imagine is. If you are believing things should be different, can you find some basis for believing that in the absence of a controller/doer anywhere? No if nobody there none of it makes much sense. This is minding am sure as I've heard this before but a lot of questions arise; 'what the point of this?' Also, 'how will my body function if I cease believing in thought?' 'Is it as simple as just dropping the belief? Like how my belief in Catholicsm has now changed?' I've read enough to know the answer to at least number one. My new sig: thought imagines all, just stop feeding the belief. Lets chat about this: To cease believing your thoughts means to understand the nature of thought. When this is clear, your relationship with thought becomes obvious. Mind becomes a tool and stops being a master. If you want to know the area of a rectangle, or file your taxes, you use thought without concern for the issue of whether or not the thoughts are ultimately true in the same way you use a calculator without wondering if it's ultimately true if the '6' actually refers to something real. In a sense, you are defining reality for mind and using mind to help you function in that reality. You are not allowing mind to define that reality for you. If you are allowing mind to tell you that you are a separate mind/body person in a strange universe, when you really have no evidence of that, then you've become a slave to your imagination, which is now dictating to you what your reality is and how it should function.
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Post by spongey on Jan 25, 2013 19:06:17 GMT -8
No if nobody there none of it makes much sense. This is minding am sure as I've heard this before but a lot of questions arise; 'what the point of this?' Also, 'how will my body function if I cease believing in thought?' 'Is it as simple as just dropping the belief? Like how my belief in Catholicsm has now changed?' I've read enough to know the answer to at least number one. My new sig: thought imagines all, just stop feeding the belief. Lets chat about this: To cease believing your thoughts means to understand the nature of thought. When this is clear, your relationship with thought becomes obvious. Mind becomes a tool and stops being a master. If you want to know the area of a rectangle, or file your taxes, you use thought without concern for the issue of whether or not the thoughts are ultimately true in the same way you use a calculator without wondering if it's ultimately true if the '6' actually refers to something real. In a sense, you are defining reality for mind and using mind to help you function in that reality. You are not allowing mind to define that reality for you. If you are allowing mind to tell you that you are a separate mind/body person in a strange universe, when you really have no evidence of that, then you've become a slave to your imagination, which is now dictating to you what your reality is and how it should function. Ok makes sense. Serious question, can one just stop believing in this craziness? Is it as simple as that? (Goodness you must be fed up of these questions!)
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Post by beingist on Jan 25, 2013 19:32:32 GMT -8
No if nobody there none of it makes much sense. This is minding am sure as I've heard this before but a lot of questions arise; 'what the point of this?' Also, 'how will my body function if I cease believing in thought?' 'Is it as simple as just dropping the belief? Like how my belief in Catholicsm has now changed?' I've read enough to know the answer to at least number one. My new sig: thought imagines all, just stop feeding the belief. Lets chat about this: To cease believing your thoughts means to understand the nature of thought. When this is clear, your relationship with thought becomes obvious. Mind becomes a tool and stops being a master. If you want to know the area of a rectangle, or file your taxes, you use thought without concern for the issue of whether or not the thoughts are ultimately true in the same way you use a calculator without wondering if it's ultimately true if the '6' actually refers to something real. In a sense, you are defining reality for mind and using mind to help you function in that reality. You are not allowing mind to define that reality for you. If you are allowing mind to tell you that you are a separate mind/body person in a strange universe, when you really have no evidence of that, then you've become a slave to your imagination, which is now dictating to you what your reality is and how it should function. Nice, E. I can rez widdat.
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2013 22:11:35 GMT -8
Lets chat about this: To cease believing your thoughts means to understand the nature of thought. When this is clear, your relationship with thought becomes obvious. Mind becomes a tool and stops being a master. If you want to know the area of a rectangle, or file your taxes, you use thought without concern for the issue of whether or not the thoughts are ultimately true in the same way you use a calculator without wondering if it's ultimately true if the '6' actually refers to something real. In a sense, you are defining reality for mind and using mind to help you function in that reality. You are not allowing mind to define that reality for you. If you are allowing mind to tell you that you are a separate mind/body person in a strange universe, when you really have no evidence of that, then you've become a slave to your imagination, which is now dictating to you what your reality is and how it should function. Ok makes sense. Serious question, can one just stop believing in this craziness? Is it as simple as that? (Goodness you must be fed up of these questions!) As long as you are coming from that sincerity, I'll follow you wherever you need to go, Spongy. You can't choose to stop believing. You believe because there seems to be evidence to support it. You'll stop believing when new evidence comes along or you see the falsity of the evidence you have. This is just how mind works and you can't change that. What doesn't work is rearranging the evidence that you already have, which is thinking. You already know what you think you know, and you're almost guaranteed to find more apparent evidence to support what you already think you know because that's what you'll be looking for. I know you know thinking doesn't work, I just wanted to offer a reason why. Most of our illusions are accepted without really questioning them at all, so some of them are collapsed quite easily by simply noticing what's actually happening in our experience. Mind is obviously involved in this, but we're trying to do is look at the big picture and not get caught up in what mind thinks it knows about it. For example, volition is not difficult to see through if we drop the assumption that we know what our next thought will be. If you take a look, you'll see you don't know. Hencely, no control over thoughts, options, choices, desires, etc. We can take a look at how dualistic experience works and drop the assumption that happiness is an absolute quantity that we should be able to increase. When we notice that all dualistic polarities are subjectively defined, and therefore mutually defining, we can see that our experience of happiness is entirely dependent upon our experience of unhappiness, like two sides of a coin that can never be separated under any conditions. If we drop the assumption that we know we are a mind/body, we can potentially notice that the mind and the body is appearing to me, and so I must be something else. In fact, we notice that whatever appears, appears to me, and so I cannot be anything that appears, which also means I never appear and am not 'something'. These are the sorts of illusions that can be seen through with a little sincere effort to know the truth of the matter regardless of what we believe or want to believe. (I haven't made any assumptions about what you have or haven't seen) It does require some insightful realization, but it's not some kind of transcendent woo woo no-mind self realization stuff. Seeing through illusions is much more accessible. Don't ever worry about Truth realization. Empty yourself completely of falsity, and the Truth will come looking for you.
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Post by beingist on Jan 25, 2013 23:34:40 GMT -8
Ok makes sense. Serious question, can one just stop believing in this craziness? Is it as simple as that? (Goodness you must be fed up of these questions!) As long as you are coming from that sincerity, I'll follow you wherever you need to go, Spongy. Yes, and Yes. Sincerity is the engine that leads you to the question, 'what am I thinking?', and then, 'What is it that is even thinking?' When you realize that what that is IS Truth, then even the very term, 'Truth realization', is seen as the mere concept it is. The 'emptying' of what you only thought you were happens rather naturally, from that point.
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 8:59:07 GMT -8
As long as you are coming from that sincerity, I'll follow you wherever you need to go, Spongy. Yes, and Yes. Sincerity is the engine that leads you to the question, 'what am I thinking?', and then, 'What is it that is even thinking?' When you realize that what that is IS Truth, then even the very term, 'Truth realization', is seen as the mere concept it is. The 'emptying' of what you only thought you were happens rather naturally, from that point. Yes.
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