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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2013 0:33:14 GMT -8
Did Niz reveal how to focus on the "I am"?
Is deliberately focusing on the "I am" possible?
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2013 9:12:16 GMT -8
Did Niz reveal how to focus on the "I am"? Is deliberately focusing on the "I am" possible? Seems like it's Niz' version of ATA.  |
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Feb 24, 2013 11:49:15 GMT -8
At core:
"Watch the thinker"
"Arouse the mind without resting it on anything"
"ATA"
"Refuse all thoughts but 'I am'"
All say exactly the same thing. All the same medicine, sold under different brand names. The 2nd one is quite obscure. Not a big market for it.
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Feb 24, 2013 11:51:05 GMT -8
Did Niz reveal how to focus on the "I am"? Is deliberately focusing on the "I am" possible? (yadda) ∞ |
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2013 12:11:07 GMT -8
At core: "Watch the thinker" "Arouse the mind without resting it on anything" "ATA" "Refuse all thoughts but 'I am'" All say exactly the same thing. All the same medicine, sold under different brand names. The 2nd one is quite obscure. Not a big market for it. Yuppers. We could even add the 'noticing' brand, but it doesn't really taste like carrot. I actually like the second brand (Arouse the mind without resting it on anything) cause peeps often get the idea of shutting down the mind by going into a semi-awake trance, and yet that high alertness is mucho importante. It is, however, very difficult for some to be alert and empty. |
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Post by silence on Feb 24, 2013 13:27:11 GMT -8
At core: "Watch the thinker" "Arouse the mind without resting it on anything" "ATA" "Refuse all thoughts but 'I am'" All say exactly the same thing. All the same medicine, sold under different brand names. The 2nd one is quite obscure. Not a big market for it. Yuppers. We could even add the 'noticing' brand, but it doesn't really taste like carrot. I actually like the second brand (Arouse the mind without resting it on anything) cause peeps often get the idea of shutting down the mind by going into a semi-awake trance, and yet that high alertness is mucho importante. It is, however, very difficult for some to be alert and empty. I agree. There's usually a belief somewhere that this trance state is absent of mind. At which point talking about the fact that it's just mind in low gear is probably useful. Mind in low gear might offer the body a nice and probably well needed break but it's probably more prone to just leading to taking a nap than any sort of insight. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2013 16:13:01 GMT -8
Yuppers. We could even add the 'noticing' brand, but it doesn't really taste like carrot. I actually like the second brand (Arouse the mind without resting it on anything) cause peeps often get the idea of shutting down the mind by going into a semi-awake trance, and yet that high alertness is mucho importante. It is, however, very difficult for some to be alert and empty. I agree. There's usually a belief somewhere that this trance state is absent of mind. At which point talking about the fact that it's just mind in low gear is probably useful. Mind in low gear might offer the body a nice and probably well needed break but it's probably more prone to just leading to taking a nap than any sort of insight. Hehe. Yes, mind in low gear is pretty much napping, and one may feel relaxed after their meditation nap, but nothing has really changed. What's even more insidious is when folks try to function in that somnambulistic state all the time, which is about when they start posting on forums about how people shouldn't post or discuss or use the mind. There are already too many half conscious minds that get pulled around by their unconscious thoughts and feelings. |
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Feb 24, 2013 17:01:21 GMT -8
At core: "Watch the thinker" "Arouse the mind without resting it on anything" "ATA" "Refuse all thoughts but 'I am'" All say exactly the same thing. All the same medicine, sold under different brand names. The 2nd one is quite obscure. Not a big market for it. Yuppers. We could even add the 'noticing' brand, but it doesn't really taste like carrot. I actually like the second brand (Arouse the mind without resting it on anything) cause peeps often get the idea of shutting down the mind by going into a semi-awake trance, and yet that high alertness is mucho importante. It is, however, very difficult for some to be alert and empty. had a hunch you might rez with that one ... pointing toward "what in the blazes is going on?" is hardly "restful"!  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2013 17:31:39 GMT -8
Yuppers. We could even add the 'noticing' brand, but it doesn't really taste like carrot. I actually like the second brand (Arouse the mind without resting it on anything) cause peeps often get the idea of shutting down the mind by going into a semi-awake trance, and yet that high alertness is mucho importante. It is, however, very difficult for some to be alert and empty. had a hunch you might rez with that one ... pointing toward "what in the blazes is going on?" is hardly "restful"! Yeah, it ain't no walk in the park. Hehe. |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2013 21:42:25 GMT -8
Seems like it's Niz' version of ATA. Maybe.  |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2013 21:43:38 GMT -8
At core: "Watch the thinker" "Arouse the mind without resting it on anything" "ATA" "Refuse all thoughts but 'I am'" All say exactly the same thing. All the same medicine, sold under different brand names. The 2nd one is quite obscure. Not a big market for it. Basically boils down to something mantraesque, laser-like focus on one single thought. |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2013 21:56:09 GMT -8
Yuppers. We could even add the 'noticing' brand, but it doesn't really taste like carrot.
I actually like the second brand (Arouse the mind without resting it on anything) cause peeps often get the idea of shutting down the mind by going into a semi-awake trance, and yet that high alertness is mucho importante. It is, however, very difficult for some to be alert and empty.Right. That's the ultra-slow minding which is often mistaken as some kind of breakthrough. It's how folks get the idea that there are levels and layers to awakening and that there's always some place 'deeper' to explore or some level 'higher' to reach for. Because from each new level things look differently again and again. Clarity as some kind of unfolding (never-ending) process. Peeling an orange kinda thing Adya mentioned. But that's not clarity, it's still confusion. That's still exploring/improving the dream. |
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Feb 24, 2013 21:58:52 GMT -8
At core: "Watch the thinker" "Arouse the mind without resting it on anything" "ATA" "Refuse all thoughts but 'I am'" All say exactly the same thing. All the same medicine, sold under different brand names. The 2nd one is quite obscure. Not a big market for it. Basically boils down to something mantraesque, laser-like focus on one single thought. That description doesn't match my experience. |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2013 22:02:03 GMT -8
I agree. There's usually a belief somewhere that this trance state is absent of mind. At which point talking about the fact that it's just mind in low gear is probably useful. Mind in low gear might offer the body a nice and probably well needed break but it's probably more prone to just leading to taking a nap than any sort of insight. Hehe. Yes, mind in low gear is pretty much napping, and one may feel relaxed after their meditation nap, but nothing has really changed. What's even more insidious is when folks try to function in that somnambulistic state all the time, which is about when they start posting on forums about how people shouldn't post or discuss or use the mind. There are already too many half conscious minds that get pulled around by their unconscious thoughts and feelings. Yes, nothing really changed. Usually there's a gliding back into the old hyper-minding and then there's desire to go back to the refreshing ultra-slow-minding again and so on. The tricky thing is that a more quiet mind sees things differently than the hyper-mind. And that is mistaken as some kind of realization. Which happens over and over again as long as there is gliding back into hyper-minding happens. So the idea of realization as an ongoing process seems very convincing and the realization roller coaster might even be fun. |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 24, 2013 22:08:22 GMT -8
Basically boils down to something mantraesque, laser-like focus on one single thought. That description doesn't match my experience. Well, my take on the "I am" thingy as something to focus on is that you can only deliberately focus on ideas. So, you could basically replace the "I am" idea with whatever idea you like, say "Om" or whatever. It's just mind control. Mantras accomplish the same, although only focusing on one single thought like "I am" may be difficult for the more scatterbrained folks. So matras are used then. If that also doesn't work and the seeker has a wild monkey mind, breath control is recommended. |
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