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Post by enigma on Feb 3, 2013 17:58:08 GMT -8
Marie and I had a good squirrel satsang today about perfection. This is pretty much how it went:
Marie: Lester Levenson talks about how spiritual healing is the recognition of perfection, and I don't understand how suffering can be perfect.
Phil: He's not saying suffering is perfect, he's saying suffering is healed by recognizing perfection.
Marie: So perfection means that whatever happens is perfect for helping us to heal?
Phil: Suffering is an expression of the illusion of imperfection, which may take the form of physical illness or actions that result in suffering for others. For the body, certain stresses and mental attitudes and behaviors disrupt the harmony in the body and result in illness. Similar attitudes, like fear, self-centeredness and greed, result in actions or inaction that may lead to a child starving in some third world country. All suffering can be traced back to false beliefs.
Marie: But the child didn't cause her starvation with her beliefs.
Phil: Separation is one of those false beliefs, as is our idea of fairness or justice. Every thought and action affects everyone.
Marie: So where is the perfection?
Phil: In the absence of the idea that something is wrong, there is perfection. The notion that something is wrong creates the imperfection. We act on those wrong ideas and cause suffering. A world devoid of illusion, including the illusion of separation and identification with the separate mind/body, is a paradise; heaven on Earth.
Marie: So.....suffering is all in the thoughts. We create suffering by believing those thoughts! It's already perfect when we stop believing those thoughts.
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Post by sufilight on Feb 4, 2013 0:33:53 GMT -8
It was indeedy a good Satsang.  I am aware that our thoughts create our reality, affects our emotions and therefore the body, yet, it has been conceptual for me as far as healing is concerned. Today, I was able to *look* with more clarity what my body and life experience would be like if I let go of the idea of imperfection and of my fears. I am exploring seeing perfection in actually manifesting a healing of the body. I find it intriguing that Lester Levenson instantly healed himself of all his ailments when he saw perfection. He shares the following story which I am quoting from his book, No Attachments, No Aversions: "Once a girl phoned me and said, "I've been to the doctor and he said I've got a ruptured diaphragm. He wants to operate. What should I do?" I saw her as whole and perfect and said "Just look at it as being all perfect. You're all okay." And she said, "Yeah! That's right!" I felt her acceptance of perfection. I then told her, "All right, now go back to the doctor for a check up." She did and she longer had it. The doctor was astonished." So, the idea of imperfection is simply a false movement of the mind and it's what creates suffering and the manifestations we see in ourselves and in the world. I am still exploring this, so I will prolly be repetitious ... I am open to more input from you and the gang. |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 4, 2013 8:26:00 GMT -8
Would be interesting to hear your version of a squirrel satsang one day, Marie. I've downloaded the Lester book. Still have to read it. But what you've quoted sounds about right. All the masters say let the body take care of itself and it will be fine. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 4, 2013 8:50:09 GMT -8
Would be interesting to hear your version of a squirrel satsang one day, Marie. It would be similar, but she's usually more interested in what all the squirrels were wearing that day.  Yeah, as usual it's a matter of getting out of the way. |
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Post by sufilight on Feb 4, 2013 13:33:02 GMT -8
Would be interesting to hear your version of a squirrel satsang one day, Marie. I've downloaded the Lester book. Still have to read it. But what you've quoted sounds about right. All the masters say let the body take care of itself and it will be fine. Maybe one of these days I may just do as suggested and share my version of a squirrel satsang. Mine will probably have a lot of exclamation points as it's awesome when a perception shifts. ;D |
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Post by sufilight on Feb 4, 2013 13:50:55 GMT -8
Would be interesting to hear your version of a squirrel satsang one day, Marie. It would be similar, but she's usually more interested in what all the squirrels were wearing that day.
Yeah, as usual it's a matter of getting out of the way. Nah, not really, I gave up on them. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. |
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Post by humphrey on Feb 4, 2013 14:14:24 GMT -8
It would be similar, but she's usually more interested in what all the squirrels were wearing that day.
Yeah, as usual it's a matter of getting out of the way. Nah, not really. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. [/quote] I'm still interested in the child that finds herself without enough food. I know that the suffering I experience related to this example is because of how I think about this example. But I'm thinking about the child herself and the suffering she has. I'm also down with the idea that the reason she finds herself without food has less to do with her own beliefs and thoughts and more to do with the dominant mindset of the society and culture she lives in. But the fact is that if she doesn't have enough food she feels discomfort and pain in all sorts of ways. Her resistance to her reality no doubt adds to this pain and discomfort and suffering, but resisting it seems totally natural. How can the conditions of this child change with acceptance of the conditions? |
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Post by sufilight on Feb 4, 2013 14:19:13 GMT -8
Nah, not really, I gave up on them. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. [/quote] I'm still interested in the child that finds herself without enough food. I know that the suffering I experience related to this example is because of how I think about this example. But I'm thinking about the child herself and the suffering she has. I'm also down with the idea that the reason she finds herself without food has less to do with her own beliefs and thoughts and more to do with the dominant mindset of the society and culture she lives in. But the fact is that if she doesn't have enough food she feels discomfort and pain in all sorts of ways. Her resistance to her reality no doubt adds to this pain and discomfort and suffering, but resisting it seems totally natural. How can the conditions of this child change with acceptance of the conditions?[/quote] I am asking the same question you are ... and curious to see what the replies are. I am thinking that child doesn't have the capacity to accept her condition, but as the adults around her change their perceptions of this world being one of lack, a hungry child would no longer be seen in this world. Perhaps this is what Ghandi meant by saying "Be the change we wish to see in the world. " |
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Post by enigma on Feb 4, 2013 18:20:26 GMT -8
It would be similar, but she's usually more interested in what all the squirrels were wearing that day.
Yeah, as usual it's a matter of getting out of the way. Nah, not really, I gave up on them. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. [/quote] What I think I saw you do the other day was let go of something; the idea that somehow suffering has to be perfect. This opens up the idea that perfection may already be the case before thought concludes otherwise and creates suffering. One possibility is to get very present, stop thinking, and feel if there is anything wrong right NOW. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 4, 2013 18:36:38 GMT -8
Nah, not really. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. [/quote] I'm still interested in the child that finds herself without enough food. I know that the suffering I experience related to this example is because of how I think about this example. But I'm thinking about the child herself and the suffering she has. I'm also down with the idea that the reason she finds herself without food has less to do with her own beliefs and thoughts and more to do with the dominant mindset of the society and culture she lives in. But the fact is that if she doesn't have enough food she feels discomfort and pain in all sorts of ways. Her resistance to her reality no doubt adds to this pain and discomfort and suffering, but resisting it seems totally natural. How can the conditions of this child change with acceptance of the conditions?[/quote] It won't. Acceptance means no more fear, no more greed, no more denial or judgment. Without that in the world, how could a child starve? How could anyone be ignored or harmed? I'm guessing you want to know how to end all suffering with you own thoughts, but even Jesus and Buddha couldn't do that. |
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Post by sufilight on Feb 4, 2013 18:57:05 GMT -8
Nah, not really, I gave up on them. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. [/quote] What I think I saw you do the other day was let go of something; the idea that somehow suffering has to be perfect. This opens up the idea that perfection may already be the case before thought concludes otherwise and creates suffering. One possibility is to get very present, stop thinking, and feel if there is anything wrong right NOW.[/quote] When you asked the question, if I didn't have the perception that the world is a dangerous place because of my family's instability during my childhood and the fears that resulted out of that, the challenge I have with my hearing may not even exist for me. I saw that I am perfect, but my idea that the world is not perfect, and that it's a place to hide from has created my life's experiences. And, yes we create suffering with our thoughts. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 4, 2013 19:14:27 GMT -8
What I think I saw you do the other day was let go of something; the idea that somehow suffering has to be perfect. This opens up the idea that perfection may already be the case before thought concludes otherwise and creates suffering. One possibility is to get very present, stop thinking, and feel if there is anything wrong right NOW. When you asked the question, if I didn't have the perception that the world is a dangerous place because of my family's instability during my childhood and the fears that resulted out of that, the challenge I have with my hearing may not even exist for me. I saw that I am perfect, but my idea that the world is not perfect, and that it's a place to hide from has created my life's experiences. And, yes we create suffering with our thoughts. Oh, yeah. Good stuff. It makes sense that we would be experiencing how supportive life is now. How we always seem to get what we need. Time to start forming a more friendly relationship with the world.  |
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Post by sufilight on Feb 4, 2013 19:20:52 GMT -8
When you asked the question, if I didn't have the perception that the world is a dangerous place because of my family's instability during my childhood and the fears that resulted out of that, the challenge I have with my hearing may not even exist for me. I saw that I am perfect, but my idea that the world is not perfect, and that it's a place to hide from has created my life's experiences. And, yes we create suffering with our thoughts. Oh, yeah. Good stuff. It makes sense that we would be experiencing how supportive life is now. How we always seem to get what we need. Time to start forming a more friendly relationship with the world. Yes, you are right! I do have a very supportive and loving foundation with you and the universe always gives us what we need when we need it, so why am I still using programs from long ago???  Yikes, as of this minute the world and I are on friendly terms! |
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Post by enigma on Feb 4, 2013 22:04:06 GMT -8
Oh, yeah. Good stuff. It makes sense that we would be experiencing how supportive life is now. How we always seem to get what we need. Time to start forming a more friendly relationship with the world. Yes, you are right! I do have a very supportive and loving foundation with you and the universe always gives us what we need when we need it, so why am I still using programs from long ago??? Yikes, as of this minute the world and I are on friendly terms! ;D |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 5, 2013 2:29:18 GMT -8
Nah, not really. All squirrels tend to wear the same outfits, hehe, it's a cultural critter thing ya know. [/b] I was thinking this morning, that the woman in Lester's story healed because I assume she had a shift of awareness, and the idea of perfection was no longer conceptual. This is where I get stuck at times; truths remain conceptual. Only when I see it beyond the mind do I notice a shift in the way I perceive and experience my world. [/quote] I'm still interested in the child that finds herself without enough food. I know that the suffering I experience related to this example is because of how I think about this example. But I'm thinking about the child herself and the suffering she has. I'm also down with the idea that the reason she finds herself without food has less to do with her own beliefs and thoughts and more to do with the dominant mindset of the society and culture she lives in. But the fact is that if she doesn't have enough food she feels discomfort and pain in all sorts of ways. Her resistance to her reality no doubt adds to this pain and discomfort and suffering, but resisting it seems totally natural. How can the conditions of this child change with acceptance of the conditions?[/quote] You have to take broader perspective and intentions into the equation. |
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