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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 9:57:55 GMT -8
Yes, I think I see what you're saying. Expectations/speculations are useless and may hinder. I'm slowly getting that message. It is enough just be open to what is, and drop attempts to manipulate what is into any particular form/direction. Acceptance of what is with no expectation. Maybe it's useful to notice that you just answered the question you asked me in your PM.  |
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Post by james on Jan 27, 2013 10:08:50 GMT -8
Yes, I think I see what you're saying. Expectations/speculations are useless and may hinder. I'm slowly getting that message. It is enough just be open to what is, and drop attempts to manipulate what is into any particular form/direction. Acceptance of what is with no expectation. Maybe it's useful to notice that you just answered the question you asked me in your PM. Just to be clear, this: "It is enough just be open to what is, and drop attempts to manipulate what is into any particular form/direction. Acceptance of what is with no expectation" is still a new direction for me... (although I'm not clear what bit of the message was supposed to tie into the PM, TBH!) |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 10:17:17 GMT -8
Maybe it's useful to notice that you just answered the question you asked me in your PM. Just to be clear, this: "It is enough just be open to what is, and drop attempts to manipulate what is into any particular form/direction. Acceptance of what is with no expectation" is still a new direction for me... (although I'm not clear what bit of the message was supposed to tie into the PM, TBH!) Yes. You were looking for a logical explanation for my continued participation at ST. I used to say, if you want to know what should happen in the next 5 minutes, wait 5 five minutes and you'll know. |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 27, 2013 10:19:07 GMT -8
Yes, I think I see what you're saying. Expectations/speculations are useless and may hinder. I'm slowly getting that message. It is enough just be open to what is, and drop attempts to manipulate what is into any particular form/direction. Acceptance of what is with no expectation. Take a look, beyond the entire context of 'mind', beyond every opinion and expectation, beyond ALL that is being 'remembered' or 'forgotten' in this very moment, HERE and NOW, DIRECTLY at 'What IS'. Look beyond mental movement in the same way you look beyond the moving windscreen wipers on your car when you're driving in the rain. Is it actually possible for What IS to be lacking in any way? Does completeness or perfection actually need to be attained? Or does the entire experience of incompleteness and imperfection only exist within the context of 'mind'? Take a look and see for yourself. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2013 20:32:19 GMT -8
I am really understanding this meditation vs practicing meditation situation. Not only have you pointed it out here on this forum, but it's coming in from a few other angles. You know how that happens... The same things being said/written endlessly, but you can't really hear it until the time is right... Sometimes I read posts/books and have this real feeling of 'I can read the words and I know there is something really valuable here, BUT I just can't really SEE it properly'. I.e. it is lost on me and my current point in the journey. You have to always translate it into your own words first before it makes sense or 'clicks'. If you don't understand it, then you haven't found your own word equivalent yet which may have different reasons. One could be that what you read isn't conveyed clearly, another one could be that you don't know what it is referring to beyond the words because you yourself have no reference point for what has been said, so it's just building concepts in the fog again. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2013 20:44:11 GMT -8
Yes, I think I see what you're saying. Expectations/speculations are useless and may hinder. I'm slowly getting that message. It is enough just be open to what is, and drop attempts to manipulate what is into any particular form/direction. Acceptance of what is with no expectation. Take a look, beyond the entire context of 'mind', beyond every opinion and expectation, beyond ALL that is being 'remembered' or 'forgotten' in this very moment, HERE and NOW, DIRECTLY at 'What IS'. Look beyond mental movement in the same way you look beyond the moving windscreen wipers on your car when you're driving in the rain. Is it actually possible for What IS to be lacking in any way? Does completeness or perfection actually need to be attained? Or does the entire experience of incompleteness and imperfection only exist within the context of 'mind'? Take a look and see for yourself. As long as he can't see that himself, it's conclusions based on assumptions and therefore not helping. A true realization ends all doubts. Conclusions never end doubts. That's the dilemma here. |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 27, 2013 21:39:56 GMT -8
Take a look, beyond the entire context of 'mind', beyond every opinion and expectation, beyond ALL that is being 'remembered' or 'forgotten' in this very moment, HERE and NOW, DIRECTLY at 'What IS'. Look beyond mental movement in the same way you look beyond the moving windscreen wipers on your car when you're driving in the rain. Is it actually possible for What IS to be lacking in any way? Does completeness or perfection actually need to be attained? Or does the entire experience of incompleteness and imperfection only exist within the context of 'mind'? Take a look and see for yourself. As long as he can't see that himself, it's conclusions based on assumptions and therefore not helping. A true realization ends all doubts. Conclusions never end doubts. That's the dilemma here. Ok. Change that last bit to, "Take a look for youself.". With my "windscreen wiper instructions", I don't feel that it should be too difficult. The idea is to use the questions I asked to help with the looking. |
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Post by james on Jan 27, 2013 23:39:03 GMT -8
Yes, logic and looking as a result of direct pointers doesn't work with me.
I did at least a year of trying to conclude myself into realization.
I spent two weeks in India with a guru doing nothing except 'looking'/'direct seeing', and that didn't work either.
I did a short spell at Ruthless Truth. I think it's a hybrid - a smattering of direct seeing, then a big mental conclusion. Job done, thankyouverymuch, "I am now buddha". :-)
Afterwards I did a bit of research on the 'liberated' one at RT who did the 'duel' thing with me. His blog entry about his 'liberation' read like this (and I mean almost literally like this):
"Fingers typing at the keyboard, aircon humming.... and nobody doing it. I now knew what the Buddha knew...
What next after this stunning relevelation? Well, I had a quick wank."
(seriously) PS I'm not sure if you know the word 'wank' outside of British English, it means masturbation.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 28, 2013 2:14:48 GMT -8
Yes, logic and looking as a result of direct pointers doesn't work with me.
I did at least a year of trying to conclude myself into realization.
I spent two weeks in India with a guru doing nothing except 'looking'/'direct seeing', and that didn't work either.
I did a short spell at Ruthless Truth. I think it's a hybrid - a smattering of direct seeing, then a big mental conclusion. Job done, thankyouverymuch, "I am now buddha". :-)
Afterwards I did a bit of research on the 'liberated' one at RT who did the 'duel' thing with me. His blog entry about his 'liberation' read like this (and I mean almost literally like this):
"Fingers typing at the keyboard, aircon humming.... and nobody doing it. I now knew what the Buddha knew...
What next after this stunning relevelation? Well, I had a quick wank."
(seriously) PS I'm not sure if you know the word 'wank' outside of British English, it means masturbation. Yes, that was my mantra on Pavlina and ST, "you can't conclude yourself into this" It gets usually ignored.  A lot of folks seem to think that just passively observing and rationalizing that there is no doer and only consciousness moving is some kind of realization. It might be a very useful concept to win online debates on spiritual forums, but if it doesn't end all doubts then it ain't 'it' either. The thought guru usually has it all figured out, has a an airtight ontology and the best logical arguments. |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 28, 2013 2:57:54 GMT -8
Yes, logic and looking as a result of direct pointers doesn't work with me. I did at least a year of trying to conclude myself into realization. I spent two weeks in India with a guru doing nothing except 'looking'/'direct seeing', and that didn't work either. I did a short spell at Ruthless Truth. I think it's a hybrid - a smattering of direct seeing, then a big mental conclusion. Job done, thankyouverymuch, "I am now buddha". :-) Afterwards I did a bit of research on the 'liberated' one at RT who did the 'duel' thing with me. His blog entry about his 'liberation' read like this (and I mean almost literally like this): "Fingers typing at the keyboard, aircon humming.... and nobody doing it. I now knew what the Buddha knew...
What next after this stunning relevelation? Well, I had a quick wank."
(seriously) PS I'm not sure if you know the word 'wank' outside of British English, it means masturbation. Well, in all honesty James, I hope do see it, one way or the other. Just coz I get a real kick outta seeing the illusion be seen through. I like seeing doubts dissolve. Good luck to you.  |
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Post by james on Jan 28, 2013 3:40:18 GMT -8
Thanks. Edit: Or maybe it is better for you to say "Here's hoping for a quick and easy death". |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 28, 2013 10:44:55 GMT -8
Thanks. Edit: Or maybe it is better for you to say "Here's hoping for a quick and easy death". Yeah, maybe it is! ;D |
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Post by humphrey on May 30, 2013 5:14:04 GMT -8
You were looking for a logical explanation for my continued participation at ST. I used to say, if you want to know what should happen in the next 5 minutes, wait 5 five minutes and you'll know. This seems very apt right now |
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Post by humphrey on May 30, 2013 5:17:12 GMT -8
Yes, logic and looking as a result of direct pointers doesn't work with me. I did at least a year of trying to conclude myself into realization. I spent two weeks in India with a guru doing nothing except 'looking'/'direct seeing', and that didn't work either. I did a short spell at Ruthless Truth. I think it's a hybrid - a smattering of direct seeing, then a big mental conclusion. Job done, thankyouverymuch, "I am now buddha". :-) Afterwards I did a bit of research on the 'liberated' one at RT who did the 'duel' thing with me. His blog entry about his 'liberation' read like this (and I mean almost literally like this): "Fingers typing at the keyboard, aircon humming.... and nobody doing it. I now knew what the Buddha knew...
What next after this stunning relevelation? Well, I had a quick wank."
(seriously) PS I'm not sure if you know the word 'wank' outside of British English, it means masturbation. ruthless wanking? |
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