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Post by Reefs on Feb 16, 2013 2:01:18 GMT -8
You'll NEVER know Peace with THAT attitude, Sponge!! Just keep looking. What have you got to loose? You think she can just stop looking?
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Post by spongey on Feb 16, 2013 2:30:15 GMT -8
You'll NEVER know Peace with THAT attitude, Sponge!! Just keep looking. What have you got to loose? You think she can just stop looking? You may hve gathered, am fed up! Do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that and it's not me even doing it! And no doesn't appear like I'm stopping either
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Post by Reefs on Feb 16, 2013 2:33:22 GMT -8
You think she can just stop looking? You may hve gathered, am fed up! Do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that and it's not me even doing it! And no doesn't appear like I'm stopping either That's exactly what I'm talking about. You can't stop it. And you didn't start it either. It's like being infected with a virus, the seeker virus. It just came over you.
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Post by relinquish on Feb 16, 2013 2:53:27 GMT -8
You'll NEVER know Peace with THAT attitude, Sponge!! Just keep looking. What have you got to loose? You think she can just stop looking? Well, I was actually going to say that there isn't even a 'her' that can give up or not, but I decided that was a little too cliche. I guess when it comes to Truth at all costs, a few non-dual cliches never went astray....unless they did.
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Post by silence on Feb 16, 2013 15:26:46 GMT -8
I don't see value in trying to see what you are. This is always going to be mind trying to see what mind cannot see. The focus is on seeing what is not so, and since it is mind that conceptualized what is not so, based on false evidence or no evidence, it's possible for mind to see what it actually did. Yes. There's never really a search for the truth or what you are. Such a statement is ridiculous. The truth is that which is always staring you in the eye to which you turn away from. What is searched for is a way to subdue or normalize the pain of avoiding the truth.
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Post by enigma on Feb 16, 2013 23:56:50 GMT -8
I don't see value in trying to see what you are. This is always going to be mind trying to see what mind cannot see. The focus is on seeing what is not so, and since it is mind that conceptualized what is not so, based on false evidence or no evidence, it's possible for mind to see what it actually did. Yes. There's never really a search for the truth or what you are. Such a statement is ridiculous. The truth is that which is always staring you in the eye to which you turn away from. What is searched for is a way to subdue or normalize the pain of avoiding the truth. Right, everybody already knows the truth, and so the searching is always some kind of game of avoidance. It's the ultimate mind split, claiming to be looking for the truth while doing everything possible to avoid consciously recognizing the obvious.
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Post by spongey on Feb 17, 2013 3:07:46 GMT -8
Yes. There's never really a search for the truth or what you are. Such a statement is ridiculous. The truth is that which is always staring you in the eye to which you turn away from. What is searched for is a way to subdue or normalize the pain of avoiding the truth. Right, everybody already knows the truth, and so the searching is always some kind of game of avoidance. It's the ultimate mind split, claiming to be looking for the truth while doing everything possible to avoid consciously recognizing the obvious. It's not obvious though. If it were we'd all know it. You don't intentionally pretend not to know it. I guess there really is no use in me hearing it over and over as, like Silence pointed out, it's becoming more belief. Will try to do some more investigating. Ta ta for now!
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Post by silence on Feb 17, 2013 11:18:57 GMT -8
Right, everybody already knows the truth, and so the searching is always some kind of game of avoidance. It's the ultimate mind split, claiming to be looking for the truth while doing everything possible to avoid consciously recognizing the obvious. It's not obvious though. If it were we'd all know it. You don't intentionally pretend not to know it. I guess there really is no use in me hearing it over and over as, like Silence pointed out, it's becoming more belief. Will try to do some more investigating. Ta ta for now! You obviously know yourself and are yourself right now. It's not as if you're wondering whether you're a pineapple or a floating cloud of nothingness (I hope ;D). The problem is that knowing and being yourself seems like it isn't good enough. You want to know all about yourself and that's the domain of thought. You want thought to tell you who you are, where you came from and all other qualities that seem to relate to you. Thought IS one of those things you're doing right now and it's just a label maker running amock. If you stop looking for the label maker to tell you what you are with superficial words put together in the correct order or a feeling that seems to say "that's me", the opportunity to know yourself intimately is present. I'm not talking about some mystical tool or supernatural intuition that only really spiritual people have. You don't need any tool to bridge any gap because there isn't one. Just stop pretending! The only difference between you and a zen master is simply that the zen master has the courage to move, be and operate from that 'empty space'. He doesn't need any object to tell him what he is no matter how profound it may seem.
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Post by beingist on Feb 17, 2013 18:00:34 GMT -8
It's not obvious though. If it were we'd all know it. You don't intentionally pretend not to know it. I guess there really is no use in me hearing it over and over as, like Silence pointed out, it's becoming more belief. Will try to do some more investigating. Ta ta for now! You obviously know yourself and are yourself right now. It's not as if you're wondering whether you're a pineapple or a floating cloud of nothingness (I hope ;D). The problem is that knowing and being yourself seems like it isn't good enough. You want to know all about yourself and that's the domain of thought. You want thought to tell you who you are, where you came from and all other qualities that seem to relate to you. Thought IS one of those things you're doing right now and it's just a label maker running amock. If you stop looking for the label maker to tell you what you are with superficial words put together in the correct order or a feeling that seems to say "that's me", the opportunity to know yourself intimately is present. I'm not talking about some mystical tool or supernatural intuition that only really spiritual people have. You don't need any tool to bridge any gap because there isn't one. Just stop pretending! The only difference between you and a zen master is simply that the zen master has the courage to move, be and operate from that 'empty space'. He doesn't need any object to tell him what he is no matter how profound it may seem. 'Mind = Label Maker run amok'.
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Post by spongey on Feb 17, 2013 18:28:19 GMT -8
It's not obvious though. If it were we'd all know it. You don't intentionally pretend not to know it. I guess there really is no use in me hearing it over and over as, like Silence pointed out, it's becoming more belief. Will try to do some more investigating. Ta ta for now! You obviously know yourself and are yourself right now. It's not as if you're wondering whether you're a pineapple or a floating cloud of nothingness (I hope ;D). The problem is that knowing and being yourself seems like it isn't good enough. You want to know all about yourself and that's the domain of thought. You want thought to tell you who you are, where you came from and all other qualities that seem to relate to you. Thought IS one of those things you're doing right now and it's just a label maker running amock. If you stop looking for the label maker to tell you what you are with superficial words put together in the correct order or a feeling that seems to say "that's me", the opportunity to know yourself intimately is present. I'm not talking about some mystical tool or supernatural intuition that only really spiritual people have. You don't need any tool to bridge any gap because there isn't one. Just stop pretending! The only difference between you and a zen master is simply that the zen master has the courage to move, be and operate from that 'empty space'. He doesn't need any object to tell him what he is no matter how profound it may seem. No definately don't think I'm a pineapple. The labeling is always there though unless I actively sit with experience. So I can know it right now but it's the day by day thoughts that are negative that get me down. I seem to get quite a few of those 'waves' of depression/despair/sadness, and when I really look it's just a crazy feeling. I wonder if it's because I'm noticing it, that there are so many of these episodes, don't know. There's definately a 'me' disliking it though. I think I have tried to distract myself but now I will sit with it more when it happens.
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Post by beingist on Feb 17, 2013 19:52:09 GMT -8
You obviously know yourself and are yourself right now. It's not as if you're wondering whether you're a pineapple or a floating cloud of nothingness (I hope ;D). The problem is that knowing and being yourself seems like it isn't good enough. You want to know all about yourself and that's the domain of thought. You want thought to tell you who you are, where you came from and all other qualities that seem to relate to you. Thought IS one of those things you're doing right now and it's just a label maker running amock. If you stop looking for the label maker to tell you what you are with superficial words put together in the correct order or a feeling that seems to say "that's me", the opportunity to know yourself intimately is present. I'm not talking about some mystical tool or supernatural intuition that only really spiritual people have. You don't need any tool to bridge any gap because there isn't one. Just stop pretending! The only difference between you and a zen master is simply that the zen master has the courage to move, be and operate from that 'empty space'. He doesn't need any object to tell him what he is no matter how profound it may seem. No definately don't think I'm a pineapple. The labeling is always there though unless I actively sit with experience. So I can know it right now but it's the day by day thoughts that are negative that get me down. I seem to get quite a few of those 'waves' of depression/despair/sadness, and when I really look it's just a crazy feeling. I wonder if it's because I'm noticing it, that there are so many of these episodes, don't know. There's definately a 'me' disliking it though. I think I have tried to distract myself but now I will sit with it more when it happens. This is what I've been doing, now, for a couple of years. It gets easier. By that, I mean that the depression/despair/sadness becomes less painful.
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Post by spongey on Feb 17, 2013 21:15:44 GMT -8
No definately don't think I'm a pineapple. The labeling is always there though unless I actively sit with experience. So I can know it right now but it's the day by day thoughts that are negative that get me down. I seem to get quite a few of those 'waves' of depression/despair/sadness, and when I really look it's just a crazy feeling. I wonder if it's because I'm noticing it, that there are so many of these episodes, don't know. There's definately a 'me' disliking it though. I think I have tried to distract myself but now I will sit with it more when it happens. This is what I've been doing, now, for a couple of years. It gets easier. By that, I mean that the depression/despair/sadness becomes less painful. Thanks. It sounds doom and gloom but it's not so bad. Life is much better now anyhow, I have a lot more coping strategies, which is no bad thing!
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Post by enigma on Feb 18, 2013 8:46:14 GMT -8
Right, everybody already knows the truth, and so the searching is always some kind of game of avoidance. It's the ultimate mind split, claiming to be looking for the truth while doing everything possible to avoid consciously recognizing the obvious. It's not obvious though. If it were we'd all know it. You don't intentionally pretend not to know it. I guess there really is no use in me hearing it over and over as, like Silence pointed out, it's becoming more belief. Will try to do some more investigating. Ta ta for now! Don't assume that what is obvious must be consciously acknowledged. I often point out misperceptions and projections that folks are doing all the time. It's common to read a sentence and substitute a preferred meaning other than the obvious. It's common to pretend that something is not happening in ourselves, and then proceed to talk about it happening in others. These substitutions and projections are done purposely. How could we be in denial about what we're doing unless we first know what we are doing? How can we project onto others until we first know that what we're projecting is already in us? This is pretending not to know, isn't it? We do the same thing when it comes to failing to recognize the truth. We just pretend not to know. It's a matter of ceasing to pretend.
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Post by spongey on Feb 18, 2013 19:46:43 GMT -8
It's not obvious though. If it were we'd all know it. You don't intentionally pretend not to know it. I guess there really is no use in me hearing it over and over as, like Silence pointed out, it's becoming more belief. Will try to do some more investigating. Ta ta for now! Don't assume that what is obvious must be consciously acknowledged. I often point out misperceptions and projections that folks are doing all the time. It's common to read a sentence and substitute a preferred meaning other than the obvious. It's common to pretend that something is not happening in ourselves, and then proceed to talk about it happening in others. These substitutions and projections are done purposely. How could we be in denial about what we're doing unless we first know what we are doing? How can we project onto others until we first know that what we're projecting is already in us? This is pretending not to know, isn't it? We do the same thing when it comes to failing to recognize the truth. We just pretend not to know. It's a matter of ceasing to pretend. Ok well I wasn't speaking consciously but we don't want to get into a nonsense! The illusion of self just happens at an early age without realising. Then those who are interested seek to see through it. The pointers work or they don't until they do. If you never came across 'non-dual' teachings, how could you ever know you were pretending not to know? Anyhow, not interested in that right now. I think I'm going to go back to basics with all this and stop the intellectualizing. I will keep looking until I 'see'. For some reason, I look and see but obviously don't really. It is simple am sure. I know I'm not a pineapple and I've seen that I'm nothing (I can't be a momentarily thought or a changing body) my mind just keeps jumping in over and over that's all it is.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 18, 2013 21:46:01 GMT -8
Don't assume that what is obvious must be consciously acknowledged. I often point out misperceptions and projections that folks are doing all the time. It's common to read a sentence and substitute a preferred meaning other than the obvious. It's common to pretend that something is not happening in ourselves, and then proceed to talk about it happening in others. These substitutions and projections are done purposely. How could we be in denial about what we're doing unless we first know what we are doing? How can we project onto others until we first know that what we're projecting is already in us? This is pretending not to know, isn't it? We do the same thing when it comes to failing to recognize the truth. We just pretend not to know. It's a matter of ceasing to pretend. Ok well I wasn't speaking consciously but we don't want to get into a nonsense! The illusion of self just happens at an early age without realising. Then those who are interested seek to see through it. The pointers work or they don't until they do. If you never came across 'non-dual' teachings, how could you ever know you were pretending not to know? Anyhow, not interested in that right now. I think I'm going to go back to basics with all this and stop the intellectualizing. I will keep looking until I 'see'. For some reason, I look and see but obviously don't really. It is simple am sure. I know I'm not a pineapple and I've seen that I'm nothing (I can't be a momentarily thought or a changing body) my mind just keeps jumping in over and over that's all it is. Sounds like an escape plan. When is the prison break expected?
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