|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 19, 2013 9:06:52 GMT -8
Taken from the Karl Renz book "Without A Second"Lessons in futility by Karl Renz.  (to avoid misunderstandings: lesson = a piece of instruction; futile = serving no useful purpose, completely ineffective; Karl Renz = Neo-Advaitist)
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 19, 2013 10:10:58 GMT -8
Taken from the Karl Renz book "Without A Second"Lessons in futility by Karl Renz. (to avoid misunderstandings: lesson = a piece of instruction; futile = serving no useful purpose, completely ineffective; Karl Renz = Neo-Advaitist)
In this case, I'd define futile more as 'cannot be accomplished'. Failure does serve a purpose and can be quite effective. I don't know about Karl, but I point to futility so that it might be noticed rather than to suggest that something not be done. Doing the futile thing may be the only way to realize the futility. |
|
burt
Member
Posts: 198
|
Post by burt on Jan 19, 2013 16:22:49 GMT -8
Picture futility as an easter egg.
The mind typically paints futility with despair, although there is a wide wide pallette available to it.
The pattern and color of the egg are indicative of where that mind has hitched a ride to and how far along it went on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 19, 2013 19:05:51 GMT -8
Picture futility as an easter egg. The mind typically paints futility with despair, although there is a wide wide pallette available to it. The pattern and color of the egg are indicative of where that mind has hitched a ride to and how far along it went on it. I'm guessing futility is only seen as a good thingy once mind recognizes something beyond futility, which probly presupposes futility has been recognized. IOW, nobody is ever interested in futility. |
|
burt
Member
Posts: 198
|
Post by burt on Jan 20, 2013 12:01:16 GMT -8
There are a myriad of avenues for expressing agreement with this. Fun to notice that whichever street I take, the guy who plants the easter-egg painted black is never popular with the parents who brought their kids to the hunt.
Of course there’s also the potential to start a conversation rooted in the recursive on the question of an interest in futility. That can be foreclosed before it starts by noting that there was never was a recognizer or anything to recognize to begin with. Since this, in one sense, is a reductive cop-out, I’ll do my best to open the conversation at a reasonable level so to speak, and choose to both extend the easter-egg metaphor and throw in the Daily Niz.
If futility is the egg, the cluck of the chicken that laid it is this:
IOW: no “enlightenment”, no “futility”.
Niz: To know that consciousness and its content are but reflections, changeful and transient, is the focusing of the real. The refusal to see the snake in the rope is the necessary condition for seeing the rope.
Q: Only necessary or also sufficient?
Niz: One must also know that a rope exists and looks like a snake. Similarly, one must know that the real exists and is of the nature of the witness-consciousness. Of course it is beyond the witness, but to enter it one must first collapse into the greasy spot(**)fn1. The awareness of conditions brings one to the unconditioned.
Q: Can the unconditioned be experienced?
Niz: To know the conditioned as conditioned is all that can be said about the unconditioned. Positive terms are mere hints and are misleading.
Q: Can we talk of witnessing the real?
Niz: How can we? We can talk of the unreal, the illusory, the transient, the conditioned. To go beyond, we must pass through total negation of everything as having independent existence. All things depend.
FN1: (** these are the words of Niz 2.0, Niz actually said: “realize the state of pure witnessing” …. Burt says: “shut the f#ck up and take a deep breath”)
There isn’t anyone there asking the question about losing enlightenment, but if we imagine that we hear it, just because we tell them about the futility of practice doesn’t mean we can’t also, in addition, tell them about practice or describe to them certain specific illusions they can expect to encounter in practice that will get them to the point of painting the egg pastels instead of black… now maybe they’ll even skip that step and leave the egg all nice and clean and white and pearly, but then again, if there wasn’t something to point to directly then there’d be no direct pointing.
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 20, 2013 14:12:37 GMT -8
Q: Can the unconditioned be experienced? Niz: To know the conditioned as conditioned is all that can be said about the unconditioned. Positive terms are mere hints and are misleading. This gets really tricky cuz language demands that something like "the unconditioned" be pointed to, which is what leads to the question. The question is misconceived but how does one point to that misconception with more misleading terms? Mind is obliged to set up 'the unconditioned' as some thing or state or experience, and so the answer precedes the question. That is, the questioner imagines an experiential state and then the question arises if it can be experienced. The question seeks confirmation of a misconception. I see Niz' strategic use of the word unconditioned, meaning no conditions. Conditions are necessary for any experience to happen. Without conditions, mind cannot move. 'Conditions' refers to the the experience itself, and so 'unconditioned' dismisses the question before it is asked. What can one say about the absence of head banging except to either point to non-banging or to point out the relentless banging and suggest that it would be better if it weren't happening? |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 20, 2013 17:54:57 GMT -8
Doing the futile thing may be the only way to realize the futility. Such is the power of futility. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 20, 2013 18:06:16 GMT -8
Doing the futile thing may be the only way to realize the futility. Such is the power of futility. ;D Destined for the NYT best sellers list. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 20, 2013 18:14:25 GMT -8
Destined for the NYT best sellers list. ;D Sorta kinda. Beats Tolle and A-H. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 20, 2013 18:21:52 GMT -8
Destined for the NYT best sellers list. ;D Sorta kinda. Beats Tolle and A-H. ;D It might instigate some book burnings too. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 20, 2013 18:25:35 GMT -8
It might instigate some book burnings too. One day we will see.  |
|
|
|
Post by beingist on Jan 20, 2013 19:28:20 GMT -8
Picture futility as an easter egg. The mind typically paints futility with despair, although there is a wide wide pallette available to it. The pattern and color of the egg are indicative of where that mind has hitched a ride to and how far along it went on it. I'm guessing futility is only seen as a good thingy once mind recognizes something beyond futility, which probly presupposes futility has been recognized. IOW, nobody is ever interested in futility. Isn't 'futility' and 'head-banging' the same thing? |
|
|
|
Post by beingist on Jan 20, 2013 20:02:06 GMT -8
Was just reading this. This is good. I'm rezzin'. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 20, 2013 20:16:01 GMT -8
Was just reading this. This is good. I'm rezzin'.Yeah, the reading is good. However, every time I watch KR on youtube in action I get a different impression.  |
|
