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Post by humphrey on Jan 16, 2013 7:05:09 GMT -8
How does one go about discerning the existence of sincerity or not?
I'm wondering because sincerity or earnestness are pointed to a lot as a key characteristics for cutting through stuff and I always end up wondering if I got the sincerity or earnestness juju. And maybe if this question has to be asked it is telling of the sincerity/earnestness lack? Or maybe it's a natural question that arises when there is sincerity/earnestness but lack of confidence or clarity?
The sincerity/earnestness thing reminds me of that zen story of the student who slogged his way through a snowstorm to become a monk. The abbot came out and told him to wait. So he just waited and waited and waited. I don't remember the story very well but it was a test of commitment, etc. I think.
Anyhoo, I trust you moderators will boot me out of this joint if you find the sincerity lacking. I'd appreciate a warning however, as I'm interested in getting to the bottom of self-deception and I'd appreciate some feedback if that's the case.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 16, 2013 8:31:53 GMT -8
How does one go about discerning the existence of sincerity or not?
I'm wondering because sincerity or earnestness are pointed to a lot as a key characteristics for cutting through stuff and I always end up wondering if I got the sincerity or earnestness juju. And maybe if this question has to be asked it is telling of the sincerity/earnestness lack? Or maybe it's a natural question that arises when there is sincerity/earnestness but lack of confidence or clarity?
The sincerity/earnestness thing reminds me of that zen story of the student who slogged his way through a snowstorm to become a monk. The abbot came out and told him to wait. So he just waited and waited and waited. I don't remember the story very well but it was a test of commitment, etc. I think. Really good question. Here's what the dictionary says: To honesty and purity of intention I would add ability to stay focused on a subject over a longer period of time which is similar to determination. The zen monk story might be a little too extreme because hard work and effort alone isn't getting you anywhere either. So the most important ingredient is probably the willingness to end the self-deception no matter what, being done with excuses. Anyhoo, I trust you moderators will boot me out of this joint if you find the sincerity lacking. I'd appreciate a warning however, as I'm interested in getting to the bottom of self-deception and I'd appreciate some feedback if that's the case. Sounds good. Take it easy.  |
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Post by Portto on Jan 16, 2013 10:52:49 GMT -8
When we ask ourselves what a word means, we have 4 options: 1. accept the dictionary definition 2. accept the definition of the one we're are talking to 3. imagine our own definition 4. physically use/point to the 'thing' the word refers to Two notes: a) #1 & #2 are imagined by others b) #4 is difficult with abstract (high level imagination) words Which one do you prefer?  |
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burt
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Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Jan 16, 2013 17:15:00 GMT -8
When we ask ourselves what a word means, we have 4 options: 1. accept the dictionary definition 2. accept the definition of the one we're are talking to 3. imagine our own definition 4. physically use/point to the 'thing' the word refers to Two notes: a) #1 & #2 are imagined by others b) #4 is difficult with abstract (high level imagination) words Which one do you prefer? Portto, I would respectfully and sincerely offer the opinion that 1,2 and 4 all collapse into #3. |
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Post by Portto on Jan 16, 2013 17:26:41 GMT -8
Portto, I would respectfully and sincerely offer the opinion that 1,2 and 4 all collapse into #3. Sure! My idea was that if somebody asks "What is a chair?" and there is a chair around, I can sit on the chair to answer the question! And the questioner can also sit on the chair to get their answer! |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 16, 2013 17:49:55 GMT -8
When we ask ourselves what a word means, we have 4 options: 1. accept the dictionary definition 2. accept the definition of the one we're are talking to 3. imagine our own definition 4. physically use/point to the 'thing' the word refers to Two notes: a) #1 & #2 are imagined by others b) #4 is difficult with abstract (high level imagination) words Which one do you prefer? Portto, I would respectfully and sincerely offer the opinion that 1,2 and 4 all collapse into #3. I wonder what Niz would say...?  |
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burt
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Post by burt on Jan 16, 2013 18:02:44 GMT -8
Portto, I would respectfully and sincerely offer the opinion that 1,2 and 4 all collapse into #3. Sure! My idea was that if somebody asks "What is a chair?" and there is a chair around, I can sit on the chair to answer the question! And the questioner can also sit on the chair to get their answer! That's a good idea. Yes "chair", for all those who know the word (as opposed, to say, "silla" or "fauteuil" ), is one of those imaginings that we can easily imagine to be imagined the same in the imagining regardless of the imagined imaginer. |
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Post by Portto on Jan 16, 2013 18:14:22 GMT -8
Yes "chair", for all those who know the word (as opposed, to say, "silla" or "fauteuil" ), is one of those imaginings that we can easily imagine to be imagined the same in the imagining regardless of the imagined imaginer. That's one tasty pretzel (thought)! |
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burt
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Post by burt on Jan 16, 2013 18:24:01 GMT -8
Yes "chair", for all those who know the word (as opposed, to say, "silla" or "fauteuil" ), is one of those imaginings that we can easily imagine to be imagined the same in the imagining regardless of the imagined imaginer. That's one tasty pretzel (thought)! Glad you liked the taste of it! Wish I could do that with a carrot! |
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burt
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Post by burt on Jan 16, 2013 18:25:47 GMT -8
Portto, I would respectfully and sincerely offer the opinion that 1,2 and 4 all collapse into #3. I wonder what Niz would say...? Well yes, I can see why you would wonder that given this context, as you might wonder what Ramana M. would say etc ... On the other hand, I have no idea or interest in what Lurch, Esther Hicks or Robert Di Nero would have to say on the matter! |
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Post by silence on Jan 17, 2013 10:03:40 GMT -8
How does one go about discerning the existence of sincerity or not? I'm wondering because sincerity or earnestness are pointed to a lot as a key characteristics for cutting through stuff and I always end up wondering if I got the sincerity or earnestness juju. And maybe if this question has to be asked it is telling of the sincerity/earnestness lack? Or maybe it's a natural question that arises when there is sincerity/earnestness but lack of confidence or clarity? The sincerity/earnestness thing reminds me of that zen story of the student who slogged his way through a snowstorm to become a monk. The abbot came out and told him to wait. So he just waited and waited and waited. I don't remember the story very well but it was a test of commitment, etc. I think. Anyhoo, I trust you moderators will boot me out of this joint if you find the sincerity lacking. I'd appreciate a warning however, as I'm interested in getting to the bottom of self-deception and I'd appreciate some feedback if that's the case. Sincerity for the most part is just the absence of all sorts of ulterior motives purposefully contributing to ones involvement in an exchange with someone else. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2013 11:37:07 GMT -8
How does one go about discerning the existence of sincerity or not? I'm wondering because sincerity or earnestness are pointed to a lot as a key characteristics for cutting through stuff and I always end up wondering if I got the sincerity or earnestness juju. And maybe if this question has to be asked it is telling of the sincerity/earnestness lack? Or maybe it's a natural question that arises when there is sincerity/earnestness but lack of confidence or clarity? The sincerity/earnestness thing reminds me of that zen story of the student who slogged his way through a snowstorm to become a monk. The abbot came out and told him to wait. So he just waited and waited and waited. I don't remember the story very well but it was a test of commitment, etc. I think. Anyhoo, I trust you moderators will boot me out of this joint if you find the sincerity lacking. I'd appreciate a warning however, as I'm interested in getting to the bottom of self-deception and I'd appreciate some feedback if that's the case. Sincerity for the most part is just the absence of all sorts of ulterior motives purposefully contributing to ones involvement in an exchange with someone else. I like that. |
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Post by beingist on Jan 17, 2013 11:41:00 GMT -8
Sincerity for the most part is just the absence of all sorts of ulterior motives purposefully contributing to ones involvement in an exchange with someone else. I like that. Yeah, same here. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2013 12:01:33 GMT -8
I believe that a clear intention is as important here as it is in forming a focus of sincerity, so I modified the statement of intent slightly to reflect Silence's input. |
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Post by humphrey on Jan 17, 2013 12:21:19 GMT -8
Perhaps we could say sincerity is the intent to discover the truth and the absence of ulterior motives that would compromise that search as we commune with others here. I like silence's addition and your incorporation here. Dominated by what is likely a personal perspective, it's interesting to ruminate on what ulterior motives may be at play. To sound clever? To procrastinate? To admire my own writing reflected in the pool? I think those are some of the ulterior motives. There are probably others too that I'm not thinking about / conscious of. But they are not the dominant one. I just want to stop the game, not that I'm against playing or anything. |
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