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Post by beingist on Jan 16, 2013 19:33:00 GMT -8
Edit: Impulses coming from intuition will feel more like a calling. Impulses coming from conditioning will feel more like a should or have to. Yes. This is important. |
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Post by james on Jan 17, 2013 0:34:49 GMT -8
Thanks for all the advice, it's cleared things up. Onwards. :-)
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Post by Reefs on Jan 17, 2013 1:39:45 GMT -8
Edit: Impulses coming from intuition will feel more like a calling. Impulses coming from conditioning will feel more like a should or have to.
Yes. This is important.Yes, muy importante. Not being able telling these two kind of impulses apart is probably the reason that folks fall for thought gurus over and over again and also the reason why thought gurus are so popular. Maybe just simple economics of supply and demand. |
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Post by james on Jan 17, 2013 7:22:25 GMT -8
So conditioning vs intuition - is it basically like autopilot vs conscious decision making?
I'm sitting here at work and all of a sudden I find myself popping back into consciousness three inches out of my chair with the fuzzy image of a biscuit forming in my head... Conditioning, yes?
But if someone asks me if I want a biscuit and I merely observe the automatic output before answering from a 'different place' (not sure what else to call it), this will be a more intuitive answer?
I mistrusted and devalued the word intuition for ages because my wife will often back up choices with the label 'intuition' as the reason, and insist that it will be the right decision/choice/answer because of it. But she's often just plain wrong, probably 50/50 - so the word becomes kind of meaningless to person it's being said to.
So I think intuition can sometimes be the posh sounding label slapped on 'a strong inclination towards' type feeling. Equally, I am probably being harsh for trying to link up intuitive decisions with 'correct' outcomes. It is probably enough that the action itself came as a result of intuition, the fruit of the action is what it is.
But I'd propose in some ways it doesn't really matter what one does (flip a coin, really - within reason I guess) as long as it is done consciously. I'm having less and less preference for one activity over another these days. Which is pretty nice because then there isn't that tension created in that feeling of *having* to do something while pining for something else (leading to that sulky child kind of vibe, which is inflicted on anyone in the vicinity - victim role). I don't miss it. :-)
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2013 9:35:24 GMT -8
I thought James wanted this thread to be closed to participation from others, but in case others got that impression too, he's fine with anyone discussing this topic here.
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Post by silence on Jan 17, 2013 10:13:57 GMT -8
So conditioning vs intuition - is it basically like autopilot vs conscious decision making? I'm sitting here at work and all of a sudden I find myself popping back into consciousness three inches out of my chair with the fuzzy image of a biscuit forming in my head... Conditioning, yes? But if someone asks me if I want a biscuit and I merely observe the automatic output before answering from a 'different place' (not sure what else to call it), this will be a more intuitive answer? I mistrusted and devalued the word intuition for ages because my wife will often back up choices with the label 'intuition' as the reason, and insist that it will be the right decision/choice/answer because of it. But she's often just plain wrong, probably 50/50 - so the word becomes kind of meaningless to person it's being said to. So I think intuition can sometimes be the posh sounding label slapped on 'a strong inclination towards' type feeling. Equally, I am probably being harsh for trying to link up intuitive decisions with 'correct' outcomes. It is probably enough that the action itself came as a result of intuition, the fruit of the action is what it is. But I'd propose in some ways it doesn't really matter what one does (flip a coin, really - within reason I guess) as long as it is done consciously. I'm having less and less preference for one activity over another these days. Which is pretty nice because then there isn't that tension created in that feeling of *having* to do something while pining for something else (leading to that sulky child kind of vibe, which is inflicted on anyone in the vicinity - victim role). I don't miss it. :-) Intuition to me is just the innate confidence you possess before thought tries to touch anything. It doesn't actually have anything to do with whether you'll be right or wrong or whether things will work out in the framework of how thought wants things to be. For that very reason, the thought identified person will quickly dismiss their own confidence because it seems to be wrong and or land them in confrontational or undesirable situations. I think you're right in that people tend to assign their own sort of arrogant future predicting impulses as intuition. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2013 11:50:34 GMT -8
So conditioning vs intuition - is it basically like autopilot vs conscious decision making? I'm sitting here at work and all of a sudden I find myself popping back into consciousness three inches out of my chair with the fuzzy image of a biscuit forming in my head... Conditioning, yes? But if someone asks me if I want a biscuit and I merely observe the automatic output before answering from a 'different place' (not sure what else to call it), this will be a more intuitive answer? I mistrusted and devalued the word intuition for ages because my wife will often back up choices with the label 'intuition' as the reason, and insist that it will be the right decision/choice/answer because of it. But she's often just plain wrong, probably 50/50 - so the word becomes kind of meaningless to person it's being said to. So I think intuition can sometimes be the posh sounding label slapped on 'a strong inclination towards' type feeling. Equally, I am probably being harsh for trying to link up intuitive decisions with 'correct' outcomes. It is probably enough that the action itself came as a result of intuition, the fruit of the action is what it is. But I'd propose in some ways it doesn't really matter what one does (flip a coin, really - within reason I guess) as long as it is done consciously. I'm having less and less preference for one activity over another these days. Which is pretty nice because then there isn't that tension created in that feeling of *having* to do something while pining for something else (leading to that sulky child kind of vibe, which is inflicted on anyone in the vicinity - victim role). I don't miss it. :-) Intuition to me is just the innate confidence you possess before thought tries to touch anything. It doesn't actually have anything to do with whether you'll be right or wrong or whether things will work out in the framework of how thought wants things to be. For that very reason, the thought identified person will quickly dismiss their own confidence because it seems to be wrong and or land them in confrontational or undesirable situations. I think you're right in that people tend to assign their own sort of arrogant future predicting impulses as intuition. Yes, I've mentioned before that used to use the word 'intuition' to refer to insight/clarity, and stopped when I saw peeps using it to refer to following one's feelings or listening to the soul, predicting the future or following 'signs' or basically whatever they wanted it to mean. I don't know if your definition is the 'correct' one either (hehe) so I pretty much just leave it alone. |
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Post by silence on Jan 17, 2013 21:30:49 GMT -8
Intuition to me is just the innate confidence you possess before thought tries to touch anything. It doesn't actually have anything to do with whether you'll be right or wrong or whether things will work out in the framework of how thought wants things to be. For that very reason, the thought identified person will quickly dismiss their own confidence because it seems to be wrong and or land them in confrontational or undesirable situations. I think you're right in that people tend to assign their own sort of arrogant future predicting impulses as intuition. Yes, I've mentioned before that used to use the word 'intuition' to refer to insight/clarity, and stopped when I saw peeps using it to refer to following one's feelings or listening to the soul, predicting the future or following 'signs' or basically whatever they wanted it to mean. I don't know if your definition is the 'correct' one either (hehe) so I pretty much just leave it alone. Leaving it alone is probably for the best in favor of a term less loaded. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 18, 2013 1:32:36 GMT -8
So conditioning vs intuition - is it basically like autopilot vs conscious decision making?
I'm sitting here at work and all of a sudden I find myself popping back into consciousness three inches out of my chair with the fuzzy image of a biscuit forming in my head... Conditioning, yes?
But if someone asks me if I want a biscuit and I merely observe the automatic output before answering from a 'different place' (not sure what else to call it), this will be a more intuitive answer?
I mistrusted and devalued the word intuition for ages because my wife will often back up choices with the label 'intuition' as the reason, and insist that it will be the right decision/choice/answer because of it. But she's often just plain wrong, probably 50/50 - so the word becomes kind of meaningless to person it's being said to.
So I think intuition can sometimes be the posh sounding label slapped on 'a strong inclination towards' type feeling. Equally, I am probably being harsh for trying to link up intuitive decisions with 'correct' outcomes. It is probably enough that the action itself came as a result of intuition, the fruit of the action is what it is.
But I'd propose in some ways it doesn't really matter what one does (flip a coin, really - within reason I guess) as long as it is done consciously. I'm having less and less preference for one activity over another these days. Which is pretty nice because then there isn't that tension created in that feeling of *having* to do something while pining for something else (leading to that sulky child kind of vibe, which is inflicted on anyone in the vicinity - victim role). I don't miss it. :-) Intuition means no thinking involved, prior to thinking, no mental detours, just straight and direct. But often too subtle to notice when the mind chatter is a little noisy. Seems your wife has no idea what intuition is either. Since she can't come up with a clear explanation or concept, calling it intuition comes in handy. How are you gonna argue intuition? Only if you have your 50/50 statistics fact sheet. ;D The 'goal' isn't to let go of any preferences and live passively. That's a misunderstanding. Preferences are not the problem. The problem is the weighing of the pros and cons - which clearly isn't intuition. Watch little kids, toddlers. They want to romp and play. Some followers of non-duality tend to think the opposite of that would be the ideal, just sitting there quietly in meditation far away from the hustle and bustle of the world. Watch those toddlers. Take a few toys, put them right in front of them and tell them just to watch them calmly and peacefully. They will get antsy, they can't wait to get their little hands on these toys. Saying 'all things are just happening' is somehow right if you want to point out that there is no doer, but it's also often misunderstood as just passively being dragged along by fate. So nowadays I prefer to call it 'sponataneousing' instead of 'happening' because this term also points to the active component of being creative. |
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Post by beingist on Jan 18, 2013 5:36:43 GMT -8
So conditioning vs intuition - is it basically like autopilot vs conscious decision making?
I'm sitting here at work and all of a sudden I find myself popping back into consciousness three inches out of my chair with the fuzzy image of a biscuit forming in my head... Conditioning, yes?
But if someone asks me if I want a biscuit and I merely observe the automatic output before answering from a 'different place' (not sure what else to call it), this will be a more intuitive answer?
I mistrusted and devalued the word intuition for ages because my wife will often back up choices with the label 'intuition' as the reason, and insist that it will be the right decision/choice/answer because of it. But she's often just plain wrong, probably 50/50 - so the word becomes kind of meaningless to person it's being said to.
So I think intuition can sometimes be the posh sounding label slapped on 'a strong inclination towards' type feeling. Equally, I am probably being harsh for trying to link up intuitive decisions with 'correct' outcomes. It is probably enough that the action itself came as a result of intuition, the fruit of the action is what it is.
But I'd propose in some ways it doesn't really matter what one does (flip a coin, really - within reason I guess) as long as it is done consciously. I'm having less and less preference for one activity over another these days. Which is pretty nice because then there isn't that tension created in that feeling of *having* to do something while pining for something else (leading to that sulky child kind of vibe, which is inflicted on anyone in the vicinity - victim role). I don't miss it. :-) But often too subtle to notice when the mind chatter is a little noisy. Seems your wife has no idea what intuition is either. Since she can't come up with a clear explanation or concept, calling it intuition comes in handy. How are you gonna argue intuition? Only if you have your 50/50 statistics fact sheet. ;D The 'goal' isn't to let go of any preferences and live passively. That's a misunderstanding. Preferences are not the problem. The problem is the weighing of the pros and cons - which clearly isn't intuition. Watch little kids, toddlers. They want to romp and play. Some followers of non-duality tend to think the opposite of that would be the ideal, just sitting there quietly in meditation far away from the hustle and bustle of the world. Watch those toddlers. Take a few toys, put them right in front of them and tell them just to watch them calmly and peacefully. They will get antsy, they can't wait to get their little hands on these toys. Saying 'all things are just happening' is somehow right if you want to point out that there is no doer, but it's also often misunderstood as just passively being dragged along by fate. So nowadays I prefer to call it 'sponataneousing' instead of 'happening' because this term also points to the active component of being creative. Just to add to the bold above, intuition also means no emotion is involved, as emotion is also thought-based. I think this is where a number of people confuse intuition with an irrational impulsiveness. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 18, 2013 11:24:19 GMT -8
Intuition means no thinking involved, prior to thinking, no mental detours, just straight and direct. But often too subtle to notice when the mind chatter is a little noisy. Seems your wife has no idea what intuition is either. Since she can't come up with a clear explanation or concept, calling it intuition comes in handy. How are you gonna argue intuition? Only if you have your 50/50 statistics fact sheet. ;D The 'goal' isn't to let go of any preferences and live passively. That's a misunderstanding. Preferences are not the problem. The problem is the weighing of the pros and cons - which clearly isn't intuition. Watch little kids, toddlers. They want to romp and play. Some followers of non-duality tend to think the opposite of that would be the ideal, just sitting there quietly in meditation far away from the hustle and bustle of the world. Watch those toddlers. Take a few toys, put them right in front of them and tell them just to watch them calmly and peacefully. They will get antsy, they can't wait to get their little hands on these toys. Saying 'all things are just happening' is somehow right if you want to point out that there is no doer, but it's also often misunderstood as just passively being dragged along by fate. So nowadays I prefer to call it 'sponataneousing' instead of 'happening' because this term also points to the active component of being creative. Just to add to the bold above, intuition also means no emotion is involved, as emotion is also thought-based. I think this is where a number of people confuse intuition with an irrational impulsiveness. Yes, often justifying thoughts that are motivated by feeling on the basis that the feeling is more correct than thought. As you say, this feeling is also based on thought. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 19, 2013 2:41:17 GMT -8
Just to add to the bold above, intuition also means no emotion is involved, as emotion is also thought-based.
I think this is where a number of people confuse intuition with an irrational impulsiveness. Right. Looks like James' decisions are reason based and his wife's decisions are feeling based. Reason is precise and specific, feelings are foggy and general. So James can always come up with a sound explanation while his wife has problems giving directions in the fog. However, neither approach is really successful. So to suggest a middle path, a synthesis of reason and feeling, won't do the trick either, because both are flawed already, so it can only get more flawed from there. |
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