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Post by enigma on Mar 26, 2013 22:37:16 GMT -8
It's not necessary, nor is it possible, to get the world to conform to our expectations, so clearly something must be done about our expectations. If they were based on what is actually happening, then changing them would also be a problem, but they aren't. This is why it's necessary to see what's actually going on instead of what we think/imagine is going on, and that's what it means to see through the illusion. When we look at the events of the world, we immediately encounter a problem. There actually is cruelty, selfishness and suffering, and so it doesn't look like we are seeing illusions, and our expectations that something needs to change seem reasonable, but what we are looking at is not the illusion but rather the result of how we respond to illusion. See the rest of the article here: www.realizinghappiness.com/seeing_through_illusions.html
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Post by spongey on Mar 27, 2013 15:39:32 GMT -8
It's not necessary, nor is it possible, to get the world to conform to our expectations, so clearly something must be done about our expectations. If they were based on what is actually happening, then changing them would also be a problem, but they aren't. This is why it's necessary to see what's actually going on instead of what we think/imagine is going on, and that's what it means to see through the illusion. When we look at the events of the world, we immediately encounter a problem. There actually is cruelty, selfishness and suffering, and so it doesn't look like we are seeing illusions, and our expectations that something needs to change seem reasonable, but what we are looking at is not the illusion but rather the result of how we respond to illusion. See the rest of the article here: www.realizinghappiness.com/seeing_through_illusions.htmlI don't have much time but just quickly wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading this. I have so many 'shoulds and should nots'. A big fear (conditioned I suspect) is not wanting to be a 'push over'. So if someone doesn't do the right thing I am literally having talks to myself about how they should behave. I can see that it's just my ingrained beliefs. Give u a quick example: My sis (my daughter's godmother) didn't call on my girl's 3rd birthday. That kind of thing has me labelling her selfish and uncaring etc why did I pick her as Godparent etc? I mean there's a lot of shoulda there obviously but the alternative is a) just ignore it b) just remind her (i did but she didn't reply) ?? I mean now I don't want to talk to her I'm angry about it. If my mind was silent it'd be easier but it isn't so..... Obviously that's just one example, but a good one of where 'shoulds' cause great discord and discomfort for me. Thanks for discussing.
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Post by enigma on Mar 27, 2013 19:19:36 GMT -8
It's not necessary, nor is it possible, to get the world to conform to our expectations, so clearly something must be done about our expectations. If they were based on what is actually happening, then changing them would also be a problem, but they aren't. This is why it's necessary to see what's actually going on instead of what we think/imagine is going on, and that's what it means to see through the illusion. When we look at the events of the world, we immediately encounter a problem. There actually is cruelty, selfishness and suffering, and so it doesn't look like we are seeing illusions, and our expectations that something needs to change seem reasonable, but what we are looking at is not the illusion but rather the result of how we respond to illusion. See the rest of the article here: www.realizinghappiness.com/seeing_through_illusions.htmlI don't have much time but just quickly wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading this. I have so many 'shoulds and should nots'. A big fear (conditioned I suspect) is not wanting to be a 'push over'. So if someone doesn't do the right thing I am literally having talks to myself about how they should behave. I can see that it's just my ingrained beliefs. Give u a quick example: My sis (my daughter's godmother) didn't call on my girl's 3rd birthday. That kind of thing has me labelling her selfish and uncaring etc why did I pick her as Godparent etc? I mean there's a lot of shoulda there obviously but the alternative is a) just ignore it b) just remind her (i did but she didn't reply) ?? I mean now I don't want to talk to her I'm angry about it. If my mind was silent it'd be easier but it isn't so..... Obviously that's just one example, but a good one of where 'shoulds' cause great discord and discomfort for me. Thanks for discussing. Yeah, expectations are a killer in any relationship. Also, I can't help but wonder if that's the kind of person your sis is. If so, why would you expect something else? If it's not, there's likely a reason why she wasn't acting like herself, and finding out what that is may lead to understanding. Instead of a (probably terse) reminder, how about, 'That's not like you. Is everything okay?'
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Post by spongey on Mar 27, 2013 20:59:43 GMT -8
I don't have much time but just quickly wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading this. I have so many 'shoulds and should nots'. A big fear (conditioned I suspect) is not wanting to be a 'push over'. So if someone doesn't do the right thing I am literally having talks to myself about how they should behave. I can see that it's just my ingrained beliefs. Give u a quick example: My sis (my daughter's godmother) didn't call on my girl's 3rd birthday. That kind of thing has me labelling her selfish and uncaring etc why did I pick her as Godparent etc? I mean there's a lot of shoulda there obviously but the alternative is a) just ignore it b) just remind her (i did but she didn't reply) ?? I mean now I don't want to talk to her I'm angry about it. If my mind was silent it'd be easier but it isn't so..... Obviously that's just one example, but a good one of where 'shoulds' cause great discord and discomfort for me. Thanks for discussing. Yeah, expectations are a killer in any relationship. Also, I can't help but wonder if that's the kind of person your sis is. If so, why would you expect something else? If it's not, there's likely a reason why she wasn't acting like herself, and finding out what that is may lead to understanding. Instead of a (probably terse) reminder, how about, 'That's not like you. Is everything okay?' Yeah I guess it is the kind of person she is. I was contemplating this a bit on my drive home just now, if we let go of our expectations there really is only what's happening going on. Then, if someone calls or doesn't, doesn't really matter. You can remain undisturbed. There's definately a battle going on here with a need for improving things. Baby steps I guess!
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Post by enigma on Mar 27, 2013 23:05:42 GMT -8
Yeah, expectations are a killer in any relationship. Also, I can't help but wonder if that's the kind of person your sis is. If so, why would you expect something else? If it's not, there's likely a reason why she wasn't acting like herself, and finding out what that is may lead to understanding. Instead of a (probably terse) reminder, how about, 'That's not like you. Is everything okay?' Yeah I guess it is the kind of person she is. I was contemplating this a bit on my drive home just now, if we let go of our expectations there really is only what's happening going on. Then, if someone calls or doesn't, doesn't really matter. You can remain undisturbed. There's definately a battle going on here with a need for improving things. Baby steps I guess! I would take it a step further. If you know this is the kind of person she is, then you can expect her to act as she did. Your reaction would seem to indicate you expected her to act like somebody else. Why would you do that?
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Post by spongey on Mar 28, 2013 0:05:09 GMT -8
Yeah I guess it is the kind of person she is. I was contemplating this a bit on my drive home just now, if we let go of our expectations there really is only what's happening going on. Then, if someone calls or doesn't, doesn't really matter. You can remain undisturbed. There's definately a battle going on here with a need for improving things. Baby steps I guess! I would take it a step further. If you know this is the kind of person she is, then you can expect her to act as she did. Your reaction would seem to indicate you expected her to act like somebody else. Why would you do that? God knows! I do it all the time, expect people to behave how I would. People seem selfish, I can't change anyone though so need to start with me...
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Post by Gopal on Mar 28, 2013 0:37:49 GMT -8
Enigma,
I want to talk about two things here,
In your article, you are speaking about seeing through illusion as careful watching, Here you are inflicting that person to watch to see through the illusion, If he does so, it will become a new creation, it will attract with it's own opposite.
Second thing, you are asking spongey to be not having any expectation, But if he has the expectation, then that's what it has to be, he can't pretend to be not having any expectation, if he does so, again that will become a new creation, it will again put into the roller coaster. As for as I know everything happens by itself. And spongey need not to bother about anything but to experience the feelings in the way he feels because other person is mere expression of his aspect.Isn't it?
RAJ
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 12:35:23 GMT -8
I would take it a step further. If you know this is the kind of person she is, then you can expect her to act as she did. Your reaction would seem to indicate you expected her to act like somebody else. Why would you do that? God knows! I do it all the time, expect people to behave how I would. People seem selfish, I can't change anyone though so need to start with me... Jed Mckenna said one time that you can trust ego completely. You can always trust it to act like an ego. Hehe.
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 12:54:51 GMT -8
Enigma, I want to talk about two things here, In your article, you are speaking about seeing through illusion as careful watching, Here you are inflicting that person to watch to see through the illusion, If he does so, it will become a new creation, it will attract with it's own opposite. Seeing through illusions reveals what is NOT so. If you see a snake where there is no snake, are you suggesting that the disappearance of the snake will cause a snake to appear? Not having any expectation is not a doing, as you imply, but I didn't suggest that she not have an expectation. What I suggested is that she not pretend to expect something other than what she expects. It's this pretending that causes the distress. If you bring a snake home as a pet and let it wander around the house like you would a dog, what right do you have to get mad at it if it bites you? Wouldn't it just be your own imaginary expectations that causes the upset and not the snake at all? There's a story about the turtle that carried the scorpion across the river that demonstrates this point. "A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore. A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked the turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown." "My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you, and drown as well. Now where is the logic in that?" The turtle thought this over, and saw the logic of the scorpion's statement. "You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river the scorpion gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle said: "You said there'd be no logic in your stinging me. Why did you do it?" "It has nothing to do with logic," the drowning scorpion replied. "It's just my nature."
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Post by Gopal on Mar 28, 2013 22:01:59 GMT -8
hi,
That's an imaginary expectation,YES ofcourse. But that imaginary expectation are being expressed now. trying to stop that expression becomes a new creation, this is what i meant.
Ofcourse, but when you pull yourself to see that illusion, that is again a new creation,isn't it?
RAJ
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 23:25:53 GMT -8
hi, That's an imaginary expectation,YES ofcourse. But that imaginary expectation are being expressed now. trying to stop that expression becomes a new creation, this is what i meant. Don't try to stop an expression, just be clear about what you expect. What does "pull yourself to see that illusion" mean?
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Post by Gopal on Mar 29, 2013 3:15:00 GMT -8
here you are asking to see what's really going on,but when you try to see what's really going on, you are distracting the flow of thoughts, and creating the new creation named "looking" so when you start to look it will stop the thoughts flow,So it becomes a new creation, it will be created with it's own opposite "allowing".This allowing fetch you to the extreme level and pull you back to looking, so roller coaster, But when this happens in my life I realized that control is also attracted,so controlling is not possible, from that movement I allow everything to happen. So what I meant to say is, to allow everything to happen,we have to realize the illusion of control first, Without realization of illusion of control looking is also a creation which has to be attracted with it's own opposite.isn't it?
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Post by beingist on Mar 29, 2013 14:06:51 GMT -8
Lest we forget, you have to see the illusion, before you can see through it.
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Post by enigma on Mar 29, 2013 21:24:07 GMT -8
here you are asking to see what's really going on,but when you try to see what's really going on, you are distracting the flow of thoughts, and creating the new creation named "looking" so when you start to look it will stop the thoughts flow,So it becomes a new creation, it will be created with it's own opposite "allowing".This allowing fetch you to the extreme level and pull you back to looking, so roller coaster, But when this happens in my life I realized that control is also attracted,so controlling is not possible, from that movement I allow everything to happen. So what I meant to say is, to allow everything to happen,we have to realize the illusion of control first, Without realization of illusion of control looking is also a creation which has to be attracted with it's own opposite.isn't it? Sorry, Raj. No comprende.
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Post by enigma on Mar 29, 2013 21:25:28 GMT -8
Lest we forget, you have to see the illusion, before you can see through it. Aren't they the same?
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