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Post by Portto on Mar 5, 2013 16:01:02 GMT -8
At first, there was the sensation of being surrounded by zombies; folks moving around in a somnambulistic state, just conscious enough to mechanically respond to impulses they seemed to know nothing about. More recently, I see whole fantasy worlds being created and lived in this half awake state such that even the senses play a relatively minor role in this dream-like world, which is why there's so much argument about what the senses are actually revealing. While there IS a consensus reality, there really is no consensus about what that is, which is how folks can argue about the most obvious things. Humans don't live in a common world, they each live in their own thought/feeling world, and open their eyelids just enough to keep from bumping into each other most of the time. Here, there is the impression that most humans are intensely focused on very narrow tasks for which they are willing to suffer and fight. It's like they are trying to anchor those tasks for eternity.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 6, 2013 3:16:27 GMT -8
Yes, I've heard you say before that it's like you already know all of this in some strange way. That's sort of the dawning of noticing that you're not stumbling into some new territory but rather slowly recognizing what was always there. One focus leaves you waiting for future events while the other turns that focus around to see what is here right now. Focus competition. ;D
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Post by Reefs on Mar 6, 2013 3:21:01 GMT -8
It makes for lots of layers of self delusion, which is why it sometimes seems like peeling an onion. Better say 'apparent' layers of delusion. Delusion is delusion.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 6, 2013 3:24:22 GMT -8
Here, there is the impression that most humans are intensely focused on very narrow tasks for which they are willing to suffer and fight. It's like they are trying to anchor those tasks for eternity. Without those tasks (something to identify with) they would fall apart.
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Post by spongey on Mar 6, 2013 5:20:21 GMT -8
It still amazes me how subtle mind is, it just keeps coming back with 'this can't be it' or more of the same other drivel. When I'm able to I'm observing and that's all. The difficulty previously was that I kept being taken on a 'magical mystical tour'. Now, however, it doesn't seem to matter so much when that happens. There's a kind of deeper knowing. It's probably still intellectual but it seems enough right now. Am still interested in reading more on the subject but not necessarily because I'm going to gain/learn anything else, it's just an interest. Also, what I'm hearing seems to be making more sense and not so confusing. Yes, I've heard you say before that it's like you already know all of this in some strange way. That's sort of the dawning of noticing that you're not stumbling into some new territory but rather slowly recognizing what was always there. One focus leaves you waiting for future events while the other turns that focus around to see what is here right now. Yes. Right now it feels like I don't have much to say and I am understanding things more and more. When I say things, I mean like 'non-volition'. At first I couldn't get it, then I understood it but still didn't get it, now I'd say I'm feeling it more. There's still thoughts going off and thinking about the next goal or LoA or whatever but I am managing to just stop and look at it and it fades away. I'm recognising it as what's happening right now and being ok with that. Whereas previously I was having internal wars. Mainly when I sit with a particular thought I notice a feeling behind it and am not trying to fight it. It's just there.
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Post by silence on Mar 6, 2013 14:09:38 GMT -8
Yes, I've heard you say before that it's like you already know all of this in some strange way. That's sort of the dawning of noticing that you're not stumbling into some new territory but rather slowly recognizing what was always there. One focus leaves you waiting for future events while the other turns that focus around to see what is here right now. Yes. Right now it feels like I don't have much to say and I am understanding things more and more. When I say things, I mean like 'non-volition'. At first I couldn't get it, then I understood it but still didn't get it, now I'd say I'm feeling it more. There's still thoughts going off and thinking about the next goal or LoA or whatever but I am managing to just stop and look at it and it fades away. I'm recognising it as what's happening right now and being ok with that. Whereas previously I was having internal wars. Mainly when I sit with a particular thought I notice a feeling behind it and am not trying to fight it. It's just there. Good enough. Yea, understanding can happen but amazingly isn't actually necessary. People who are interested in how mind functions will come to understand lots about it and speak about it in subtler and subtler ways. None of that is necessary and if that interest isn't there for you, everything may just fall away and ____________.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 7, 2013 7:29:02 GMT -8
Good enough. Yea, understanding can happen but amazingly isn't actually necessary. People who are interested in how mind functions will come to understand lots about it and speak about it in subtler and subtler ways. None of that is necessary and if that interest isn't there for you, everything may just fall away and ____________. Yup. Stay with the underscore and discard the rest.
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Post by sufilight on Mar 10, 2013 1:22:10 GMT -8
If you've ever tried to move in a hurry in a place like Mid-town Manhattan during the day you can see the failure of even this -- and "it gets worse". Even if you move very deliberately, stop-and-start and make sure not to make contact with anyone or to upset another's space ... try to go far enough fast enough ... and it's almost a certainty that you're gonna get a deliberate, resentful elbow from someone. ps: moving slow ultimately doesn't help either, especially in tourist or residential areas. Herds of biznessfolk zombies are usually pretty cool about dispersing and making way and creating gaps when the street fills up ... but families? ;D Marie grew up on NY until she moved here with me in rural Portland with the cows and sheep. Needless to say, it took a bit of getting used to. She kept asking me where all the people are. Crowded places tend to make peeps even more unconscious in a more purposeful way as a defense against sensory/feeling overload and the crashing of personal boundaries. Folks love stimulation but they need personal space for their sanity. When I had to commute to work by train to Midtown Manhattan, I would wear sunglasses (even in the winter) to avoid eye clashes and have my personal space. You forgot to add I also asked "where are the buildings??? It was culture shock for me to see what looked like a ghost town to my city eyes. hehe.
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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 12:47:23 GMT -8
Marie grew up on NY until she moved here with me in rural Portland with the cows and sheep. Needless to say, it took a bit of getting used to. She kept asking me where all the people are. Crowded places tend to make peeps even more unconscious in a more purposeful way as a defense against sensory/feeling overload and the crashing of personal boundaries. Folks love stimulation but they need personal space for their sanity. When I had to commute to work by train to Midtown Manhattan, I would wear sunglasses (even in the winter) to avoid eye clashes and have my personal space. You forgot to add I also asked "where are the buildings??? It was culture shock for me to see what looked like a ghost town to my city eyes. hehe. Yeah, I remember driving us through downtown Portland a couple times (not my idea of a good time. ) so that you could feel like you were 'home' for a while.
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burt
Member
Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Mar 13, 2013 7:49:52 GMT -8
Marie grew up on NY until she moved here with me in rural Portland with the cows and sheep. Needless to say, it took a bit of getting used to. She kept asking me where all the people are. Crowded places tend to make peeps even more unconscious in a more purposeful way as a defense against sensory/feeling overload and the crashing of personal boundaries. Folks love stimulation but they need personal space for their sanity. When I had to commute to work by train to Midtown Manhattan, I would wear sunglasses (even in the winter) to avoid eye clashes and have my personal space. You forgot to add I also asked "where are the buildings??? It was culture shock for me to see what looked like a ghost town to my city eyes. hehe. I was on a crowded southbound R pulling into 49th street one morning in the late 90's and the train stopped for about five minutes like right outside the station. In those moments, you can sense a difference in mode of thought and feeling from the other passengers. When the train is moving, it's business as usual, when it stops, it gets people's attention ... as I recall, mostly not in a good way. There's a build-up of tension that happens. So anyway, this was peak rush hour, like 8:45 or so, and the train was packed, and I was standing in the middle of it surrounded by a crush of other passengers. This girl in front of me looked around, giggled a sort of "what-the-hell" giggle, and then nestled her head on my chest. She kept it there for the entire time we pulled into the station. We chatted briefly up on the street but I was married so ... just a fleeting but very unusual memory.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 13, 2013 20:35:39 GMT -8
I was on a crowded southbound R pulling into 49th street one morning in the late 90's and the train stopped for about five minutes like right outside the station. In those moments, you can sense a difference in mode of thought and feeling from the other passengers. When the train is moving, it's business as usual, when it stops, it gets people's attention ... as I recall, mostly not in a good way. There's a build-up of tension that happens.
So anyway, this was peak rush hour, like 8:45 or so, and the train was packed, and I was standing in the middle of it surrounded by a crush of other passengers. This girl in front of me looked around, giggled a sort of "what-the-hell" giggle, and then nestled her head on my chest. She kept it there for the entire time we pulled into the station. We chatted briefly up on the street but I was married so ... just a fleeting but very unusual memory. Yup. It seems to interrupt the trance for a second. But then almost immediately starts the hyper-minding. So most miss the opportunity to see the gap Adya was talking about. It's even funnier when the train stops and the lights go out and there's no announcement for quite a while.
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Post by silvery1 on Mar 13, 2013 23:22:57 GMT -8
When I had to commute to work by train to Midtown Manhattan, I would wear sunglasses (even in the winter) to avoid eye clashes and have my personal space. You forgot to add I also asked "where are the buildings??? It was culture shock for me to see what looked like a ghost town to my city eyes. hehe. I was on a crowded southbound R pulling into 49th street one morning in the late 90's and the train stopped for about five minutes like right outside the station. In those moments, you can sense a difference in mode of thought and feeling from the other passengers. When the train is moving, it's business as usual, when it stops, it gets people's attention ... as I recall, mostly not in a good way. There's a build-up of tension that happens. So anyway, this was peak rush hour, like 8:45 or so, and the train was packed, and I was standing in the middle of it surrounded by a crush of other passengers. This girl in front of me looked around, giggled a sort of "what-the-hell" giggle, and then nestled her head on my chest. She kept it there for the entire time we pulled into the station. We chatted briefly up on the street but I was married so ... just a fleeting but very unusual memory. I'm sorry. I laid down just now, but couldn't sleep because I kept thinking about your train story from reading it this morning. It is so touching~* Every time I think of it, it makes me smile.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 22, 2013 7:29:40 GMT -8
Well, the distinctions, escape plan or no escape plan. Maybe a new rule of thumb: "If it isn't spontaneous + effortless then it's an escape plan and isn't worth it." ;D Mmm Me gusta mucho- I like it. I don't have to do anything. Something for Spongey: Papaji: "Any practice, anything that involves time, cannot take you out of bondage. Anything done with the concept of time cannot lead you to freedom beyond time. You have to jump out of time." Read more: realizinghappiness.freeforums.net/index.cgi?action=display&board=nonduality&thread=62&page=1#ixzz2OHactEhb
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Post by enigma on Mar 22, 2013 20:21:18 GMT -8
Music to a practice curmudgeon's ears.
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Post by spongey on Mar 23, 2013 5:01:29 GMT -8
Thanks, makes sense. Am still here, nothing much going on but not too much seeking at mo either. It's all good for now.
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