|
|
Post by spongey on Jan 19, 2013 20:39:09 GMT -8
Yeah, gotcha. Would be interesting to explore this further. What's the point for the person to understand this, to notice this, to notice the futility of these lifelong attempts of trying to tip the balance? I'd say dualistic happiness sounds always better than dualistic unhappiness to the person, even when the person understands the boundaries of it. Understanding the boundaries of it also means understanding that the person can't have unconditional happiness. That's where statements like "non-dual truths are not practical" come from. ;D Yeah, it's not good news that one can't find a one-ended stick. This is what folks look for their whole lives and everyone supports that search from advertising to self help gurus. Mostly, folks believe in what they're selling because they got themselves in a better place. What's difficult to admit, even to ourselves, is that we're not really happier in this 'better place' than we were before. We have to keep remembering how bad it was and how good it is now or we forget the game of being happier. A good way to remind ourselves is for things to get worse for a while, and so they do. Then we're all grateful and relieved and such, for a while. This is the roller coaster game that almost everyone plays and hardly anyone wants to admit isn't working. The problem is that the goal is wrong, and before the goal can change we need to recognize why the old goal can't work, and there's naturally a lot of resistance associated with that. That's why I've spent a lot of time at that crossroads where we stop chasing after dualistic happiness and start getting interested in this mysterious Peace thingy. To start trying to 'sell' Peace without changing the happiness mindset virtually guarantees the seeker will be looking for a dualistic peace experience of some kind that will bring about permanent happiness. I think that transition of mindset is important, and can be rather difficult to achieve, because mind can't really understand what Peace is. This does ring true. For example, we've experienced fairly big changes in our personal life this last year. I feel like I'm happier because of it. I certainly do look back and am then grateful for all I have. However, deep down there is still sadness, well mind actively looks for things to not be happy about. For instance I have a friend say one ;Dor two remarks I didn't like, despite all the great stuff she says, my mind homes in on the two bad things and relentlessly talks about it! The good news is that I am able to watch it happening, although am not sure who that 'I' watching it is, it's as far as I've got. Anyway, back to the topic. Positive thinking is far better than negative thinking in my opinion, but it's not always possible! I have no doubt now that one attracts more of what one focus on, so to teach that to the masses is definately a good thing. I do understand your point Enigma, it's actually Peace not happiness we're ultimately looking for but in the meantime, may as well enjoy our ride! |
|
|
|
Post by spongey on Jan 19, 2013 20:42:44 GMT -8
I did not add that emoticon face thingy btw
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 19, 2013 22:00:09 GMT -8
Yeah, it's not good news that one can't find a one-ended stick. This is what folks look for their whole lives and everyone supports that search from advertising to self help gurus. Mostly, folks believe in what they're selling because they got themselves in a better place. What's difficult to admit, even to ourselves, is that we're not really happier in this 'better place' than we were before. We have to keep remembering how bad it was and how good it is now or we forget the game of being happier. A good way to remind ourselves is for things to get worse for a while, and so they do. Then we're all grateful and relieved and such, for a while. This is the roller coaster game that almost everyone plays and hardly anyone wants to admit isn't working. The problem is that the goal is wrong, and before the goal can change we need to recognize why the old goal can't work, and there's naturally a lot of resistance associated with that. That's why I've spent a lot of time at that crossroads where we stop chasing after dualistic happiness and start getting interested in this mysterious Peace thingy. To start trying to 'sell' Peace without changing the happiness mindset virtually guarantees the seeker will be looking for a dualistic peace experience of some kind that will bring about permanent happiness. I think that transition of mindset is important, and can be rather difficult to achieve, because mind can't really understand what Peace is. This does ring true. For example, we've experienced fairly big changes in our personal life this last year. I feel like I'm happier because of it. I certainly do look back and am then grateful for all I have. However, deep down there is still sadness, well mind actively looks for things to not be happy about. For instance I have a friend say one ;Dor two remarks I didn't like, despite all the great stuff she says, my mind homes in on the two bad things and relentlessly talks about it! The good news is that I am able to watch it happening, although am not sure who that 'I' watching it is, it's as far as I've got. Anyway, back to the topic. Positive thinking is far better than negative thinking in my opinion, but it's not always possible! I have no doubt now that one attracts more of what one focus on, so to teach that to the masses is definately a good thing. I do understand your point Enigma, it's actually Peace not happiness we're ultimately looking for but in the meantime, may as well enjoy our ride! Enjoying the ride is what everybody is always trying to do. Why would anyone choose to not enjoy the ride? Why would anyone have to suggest that enjoying the ride might be a better way to go? Why would someone have to suggest that thinking good thoughts is more fun than thinking bad thoughts? Doesn't that seem like the most obvious thing in the world? What are the chances that there's even one mind in the whole world that doesn't really, really get that already? So assuming that makes any sense, what in blazes is really going on? You said it yourself; mind focuses on the one thing that's wrong and virtually dismisses the 100 things that are going right. Why? Mind is not stupid. In fact, it's brilliant even in it's ignorance. It can 'not know' what it obviously knows because it doesn't want to know it. It can believe that which it obviously imagined to begin with. It can ignore the obvious for countless lifetimes because it doesn't care to notice. It's goal is to be happy, and no stone is left unturned and no deception is too vile in the pursuit of that goal. The human mind has devoted itself to the pursuit of happiness for millennia, every moment of every day of every year. That's all mind cares about, so how could it possibly fail? There's only one way mind could fail so miserably to achieve permanent happiness: if it is not within the power of mind to achieve. In all those thousands of years, only a relatively small handful of minds have been willing to accept this state of affairs, and we give them names like Krishna, Buddha and Jesus. Maybe things have changed and the door has been kicked open a bit wider. So why does mind focus on the one thing that's wrong? Because temporary happiness isn't found in the stagnant air of rightness. Neither is it found in the stagnant air of wrongness, but in the wind that blows between the two. Mind focuses on what's wrong because it wants to ride that wind to rightness. When it gets there, it has to find something else wrong and ride that wind too. This is what everybody has done their whole lives, but we don't dare notice. Happiness is a wind that cannot be allowed to stop blowing, and so no-one can stop. Everybody has to keep moving, keep flapping their wings or they'll come crashing to the ground. It's exhausting and treacherous and frightening, and this is the happy part! God help those who are being blown the wrong direction or can't get off the ground anymore. This is what life is, and why the Buddha called it suffering. Mind might actually be willing to accept failure if it thought there was an alternative. There is, but mind cannot understand that alternative, which is why it's called the Peace that passes all understanding. Why would mind surrender to that which it has no capability of understanding? It can't and it won't, but it IS possible to notice what mind cannot. To see with better eyes and hear with better ears. |
|
|
|
Post by spongey on Jan 20, 2013 5:14:24 GMT -8
This does ring true. For example, we've experienced fairly big changes in our personal life this last year. I feel like I'm happier because of it. I certainly do look back and am then grateful for all I have. However, deep down there is still sadness, well mind actively looks for things to not be happy about. For instance I have a friend say one ;Dor two remarks I didn't like, despite all the great stuff she says, my mind homes in on the two bad things and relentlessly talks about it! The good news is that I am able to watch it happening, although am not sure who that 'I' watching it is, it's as far as I've got. Anyway, back to the topic. Positive thinking is far better than negative thinking in my opinion, but it's not always possible! I have no doubt now that one attracts more of what one focus on, so to teach that to the masses is definately a good thing. I do understand your point Enigma, it's actually Peace not happiness we're ultimately looking for but in the meantime, may as well enjoy our ride! Enjoying the ride is what everybody is always trying to do. Why would anyone choose to not enjoy the ride? Why would anyone have to suggest that enjoying the ride might be a better way to go? Why would someone have to suggest that thinking good thoughts is more fun than thinking bad thoughts? Doesn't that seem like the most obvious thing in the world? What are the chances that there's even one mind in the whole world that doesn't really, really get that already? So assuming that makes any sense, what in blazes is really going on? You said it yourself; mind focuses on the one thing that's wrong and virtually dismisses the 100 things that are going right. Why? Mind is not stupid. In fact, it's brilliant even in it's ignorance. It can 'not know' what it obviously knows because it doesn't want to know it. It can believe that which it obviously imagined to begin with. It can ignore the obvious for countless lifetimes because it doesn't care to notice. It's goal is to be happy, and no stone is left unturned and no deception is too vile in the pursuit of that goal. The human mind has devoted itself to the pursuit of happiness for millennia, every moment of every day of every year. That's all mind cares about, so how could it possibly fail? There's only one way mind could fail so miserably to achieve permanent happiness: if it is not within the power of mind to achieve. In all those thousands of years, only a relatively small handful of minds have been willing to accept this state of affairs, and we give them names like Krishna, Buddha and Jesus. Maybe things have changed and the door has been kicked open a bit wider. So why does mind focus on the one thing that's wrong? Because temporary happiness isn't found in the stagnant air of rightness. Neither is it found in the stagnant air of wrongness, but in the wind that blows between the two. Mind focuses on what's wrong because it wants to ride that wind to rightness. When it gets there, it has to find something else wrong and ride that wind too. This is what everybody has done their whole lives, but we don't dare notice. Happiness is a wind that cannot be allowed to stop blowing, and so no-one can stop. Everybody has to keep moving, keep flapping their wings or they'll come crashing to the ground. It's exhausting and treacherous and frightening, and this is the happy part! God help those who are being blown the wrong direction or can't get off the ground anymore. This is what life is, and why the Buddha called it suffering. Mind might actually be willing to accept failure if it thought there was an alternative. There is, but mind cannot understand that alternative, which is why it's called the Peace that passes all understanding. Why would mind surrender to that which it has no capability of understanding? It can't and it won't, but it IS possible to notice what mind cannot. To see with better eyes and hear with better ears. Walk off the battlefield right? Ahhh makes perfect sense E, well written. I shall copy and paste this and read it daily!!! |
|
burt
Member
Posts: 198
|
Post by burt on Jan 20, 2013 12:45:36 GMT -8
yummy carrot!
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 20, 2013 14:23:30 GMT -8
Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by sufilight on Jan 21, 2013 1:38:00 GMT -8
This does ring true. For example, we've experienced fairly big changes in our personal life this last year. I feel like I'm happier because of it. I certainly do look back and am then grateful for all I have. However, deep down there is still sadness, well mind actively looks for things to not be happy about. For instance I have a friend say one ;Dor two remarks I didn't like, despite all the great stuff she says, my mind homes in on the two bad things and relentlessly talks about it! The good news is that I am able to watch it happening, although am not sure who that 'I' watching it is, it's as far as I've got. Anyway, back to the topic. Positive thinking is far better than negative thinking in my opinion, but it's not always possible! I have no doubt now that one attracts more of what one focus on, so to teach that to the masses is definately a good thing. I do understand your point Enigma, it's actually Peace not happiness we're ultimately looking for but in the meantime, may as well enjoy our ride! Enjoying the ride is what everybody is always trying to do. Why would anyone choose to not enjoy the ride? Why would anyone have to suggest that enjoying the ride might be a better way to go? Why would someone have to suggest that thinking good thoughts is more fun than thinking bad thoughts? Doesn't that seem like the most obvious thing in the world? What are the chances that there's even one mind in the whole world that doesn't really, really get that already? So assuming that makes any sense, what in blazes is really going on? You said it yourself; mind focuses on the one thing that's wrong and virtually dismisses the 100 things that are going right. Why? Mind is not stupid. In fact, it's brilliant even in it's ignorance. It can 'not know' what it obviously knows because it doesn't want to know it. It can believe that which it obviously imagined to begin with. It can ignore the obvious for countless lifetimes because it doesn't care to notice. It's goal is to be happy, and no stone is left unturned and no deception is too vile in the pursuit of that goal. The human mind has devoted itself to the pursuit of happiness for millennia, every moment of every day of every year. That's all mind cares about, so how could it possibly fail? There's only one way mind could fail so miserably to achieve permanent happiness: if it is not within the power of mind to achieve. In all those thousands of years, only a relatively small handful of minds have been willing to accept this state of affairs, and we give them names like Krishna, Buddha and Jesus. Maybe things have changed and the door has been kicked open a bit wider. So why does mind focus on the one thing that's wrong? Because temporary happiness isn't found in the stagnant air of rightness. Neither is it found in the stagnant air of wrongness, but in the wind that blows between the two. Mind focuses on what's wrong because it wants to ride that wind to rightness. When it gets there, it has to find something else wrong and ride that wind too. This is what everybody has done their whole lives, but we don't dare notice. Happiness is a wind that cannot be allowed to stop blowing, and so no-one can stop. Everybody has to keep moving, keep flapping their wings or they'll come crashing to the ground. It's exhausting and treacherous and frightening, and this is the happy part! God help those who are being blown the wrong direction or can't get off the ground anymore. This is what life is, and why the Buddha called it suffering. Mind might actually be willing to accept failure if it thought there was an alternative. There is, but mind cannot understand that alternative, which is why it's called the Peace that passes all understanding. Why would mind surrender to that which it has no capability of understanding? It can't and it won't, but it IS possible to notice what mind cannot. To see with better eyes and hear with better ears. This explains why when things are nice and quiet, my mind enjoys creating non-existent conflict; some of the scenarios are right out of super hero drama. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 21, 2013 9:28:36 GMT -8
Enjoying the ride is what everybody is always trying to do. Why would anyone choose to not enjoy the ride? Why would anyone have to suggest that enjoying the ride might be a better way to go? Why would someone have to suggest that thinking good thoughts is more fun than thinking bad thoughts? Doesn't that seem like the most obvious thing in the world? What are the chances that there's even one mind in the whole world that doesn't really, really get that already? So assuming that makes any sense, what in blazes is really going on? You said it yourself; mind focuses on the one thing that's wrong and virtually dismisses the 100 things that are going right. Why? Mind is not stupid. In fact, it's brilliant even in it's ignorance. It can 'not know' what it obviously knows because it doesn't want to know it. It can believe that which it obviously imagined to begin with. It can ignore the obvious for countless lifetimes because it doesn't care to notice. It's goal is to be happy, and no stone is left unturned and no deception is too vile in the pursuit of that goal. The human mind has devoted itself to the pursuit of happiness for millennia, every moment of every day of every year. That's all mind cares about, so how could it possibly fail? There's only one way mind could fail so miserably to achieve permanent happiness: if it is not within the power of mind to achieve. In all those thousands of years, only a relatively small handful of minds have been willing to accept this state of affairs, and we give them names like Krishna, Buddha and Jesus. Maybe things have changed and the door has been kicked open a bit wider. So why does mind focus on the one thing that's wrong? Because temporary happiness isn't found in the stagnant air of rightness. Neither is it found in the stagnant air of wrongness, but in the wind that blows between the two. Mind focuses on what's wrong because it wants to ride that wind to rightness. When it gets there, it has to find something else wrong and ride that wind too. This is what everybody has done their whole lives, but we don't dare notice. Happiness is a wind that cannot be allowed to stop blowing, and so no-one can stop. Everybody has to keep moving, keep flapping their wings or they'll come crashing to the ground. It's exhausting and treacherous and frightening, and this is the happy part! God help those who are being blown the wrong direction or can't get off the ground anymore. This is what life is, and why the Buddha called it suffering. Mind might actually be willing to accept failure if it thought there was an alternative. There is, but mind cannot understand that alternative, which is why it's called the Peace that passes all understanding. Why would mind surrender to that which it has no capability of understanding? It can't and it won't, but it IS possible to notice what mind cannot. To see with better eyes and hear with better ears. This explains why when things are nice and quiet, my mind enjoys creating non-existent conflict; some of the scenarios are right out of super hero drama. ;D Yes, since life is movement only, if everything is really okay and nothing needs to be improved or corrected, then that movement ceases. Mind naturally looks for a way to begin that movement again and all such movements take the same form whether one is trying to think of the wonderful things he wants or the horrible things he wants to escape. There is always the goal, which is better, and the way it is now, which is worse. Both polarities must be held in mind before the movement between the two can even begin. So it makes no difference if you focus 'positively' on peace, love and beauty or 'negatively' on violence, hatred and ugliness. Both are required in order to move at all. you must know where you are and where you are going or the journey can't begin. And yet both locations are being creatively imagined because the whole reason for imagining them is that things are perceived as fine just as they are in this moment. Mind faces the alternative of either imagining wrongness or disappearing into the perfection of this eternal moment. The same choice is made every time without fail because to exist in that moment looks like death to mind, and yet how can existence look like death? Mind identifies existence with this movement because mind itself is a movement that is being identified with. However, when the movement stops, YOU are still here. YOU are the one who knows of movement and stillness, of time and eternity. YOU don't come into existence as a movement, a happening, and so you can't cease to exist by ceasing to happen. |
|
|
|
Post by sufilight on Jan 21, 2013 14:16:09 GMT -8
This explains why when things are nice and quiet, my mind enjoys creating non-existent conflict; some of the scenarios are right out of super hero drama. ;D Yes, since life is movement only, if everything is really okay and nothing needs to be improved or corrected, then that movement ceases. Mind naturally looks for a way to begin that movement again and all such movements take the same form whether one is trying to think of the wonderful things he wants or the horrible things he wants to escape. There is always the goal, which is better, and the way it is now, which is worse. Both polarities must be held in mind before the movement between the two can even begin. So it makes no difference if you focus 'positively' on peace, love and beauty or 'negatively' on violence, hatred and ugliness. Both are required in order to move at all. you must know where you are and where you are going or the journey can't begin. And yet both locations are being creatively imagined because the whole reason for imagining them is that things are perceived as fine just as they are in this moment. Mind faces the alternative of either imagining wrongness or disappearing into the perfection of this eternal moment. The same choice is made every time without fail because to exist in that moment looks like death to mind, and yet how can existence look like death? Mind identifies existence with this movement because mind itself is a movement that is being identified with. However, when the movement stops, YOU are still here. YOU are the one who knows of movement and stillness, of time and eternity. YOU don't come into existence as a movement, a happening, and so you can't cease to exist by ceasing to happen. Reading your reply brought up a memory: sometime last year after watching a Papaji Satsang I woke up the next morning with an empty mind - there were no thoughts for about 3 seconds, and I saw how I was recreating my world the minute I started the movement of mind. It was freaky and cool at the same time. Papaji has said that he did not use the mind - only when necessary, as a tool. In other words he did not have the need for polaraties within the mind that is if I am understanding him correctly. Will watch the video again tonight and see what clarity I gain this time. Thanks for your posts and for creating this forum and inviting your friends. Lots of good stuff here.  |
|
