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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 10:57:19 GMT -8
Soon to be on the NYT best seller list. The power of futility refers to the collapsing of illusion. It has been said that the goal of seeking is to end the seeking. Mind will no doubt interpret that as failing to find what it's looking for, but what's being implied is that it is the seeking that results in suffering rather than the inability to find something that has yet to be found. It's also said that there is nothing to find, nowhere to go and nothing to learn. It's said that you already are what you seek and it's said that which is seeking is what is sought. Mind will try to find 'that which it already is', which is analogous to thinking you're a rabbit and trying to find your human nature. The problem is not in the inability to find but in the position one has taken as the seeker. The seeker itself, and therefore the seeking process, is the only problem. There isn't another problem to solve. There isn't something for you to find. Freedom is already at the end of your rope.
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Post by beingist on Jan 27, 2013 11:06:28 GMT -8
Um. What were we supposed to be looking for, again? ;D
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burt
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Posts: 198
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Post by burt on Jan 27, 2013 11:57:49 GMT -8
Collective, cumulative, rational thought arrived at the conclusion that rational thought was futile a century ago. Predictably, it wasn't recognized, at least in terms of any widely disseminated concensus, for what it was.
That's ok though! ... 'cause the carrots get planted every year!
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Post by Gopal on Jan 29, 2013 0:31:28 GMT -8
enigma
For an example I am seeking to know whether other person is real or just figments in my consciousness, So answer would be either other person is real or mere figment, Is not an answer available? So you can end the seeking in two ways, One is arriving at right conclusion or dissolving the question. Isn't so? Another question is, how answer would be the one which is seeking? Answer must have been conceptualized,isn't?
Raj
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Post by theo on Jan 29, 2013 9:35:23 GMT -8
... The seeker itself, and therefore the seeking process, is the only problem. There isn't another problem to solve. There isn't something for you to find. Freedom is already at the end of your rope. If the freedom is already at the end of our rope, then no process can be a problem to it.
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Post by enigma on Jan 29, 2013 10:31:36 GMT -8
enigma For an example I am seeking to know whether other person is real or just figments in my consciousness, So answer would be either other person is real or mere figment, Is not an answer available? Why do you want to know that, Raj? Answers won't end the seeking, just lead to more questions. The questions have to be dissolved. (seen for the imagination that they are)
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Post by enigma on Jan 29, 2013 10:33:29 GMT -8
... The seeker itself, and therefore the seeking process, is the only problem. There isn't another problem to solve. There isn't something for you to find. Freedom is already at the end of your rope. If the freedom is already at the end of our rope, then no process can be a problem to it. Not sure what you're saying.
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Post by theo on Jan 29, 2013 12:09:10 GMT -8
If the freedom is already at the end of our rope, then no process can be a problem to it. Not sure what you're saying. Well, what would you need to be sure ?
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Post by james on Jan 29, 2013 13:02:54 GMT -8
Not sure what you're saying. Well, what would you need to be sure ? Try saying the same thing again, but using different words . IMO Enigma is saying that he can't discern your meaning in those terms.
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Post by enigma on Jan 29, 2013 16:39:14 GMT -8
Not sure what you're saying. Well, what would you need to be sure ? To suggest that no process can be a problem to the freedom dangling at the end of the rope seems to stretch the analogy a bit too far for me to grasp. Maybe if we abandon the analogy entirely and rephrase it would help.
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Post by Gopal on Jan 29, 2013 21:12:20 GMT -8
enigma For an example I am seeking to know whether other person is real or just figments in my consciousness, So answer would be either other person is real or mere figment, Is not an answer available? Why do you want to know that, Raj? Answers won't end the seeking, just lead to more questions. The questions have to be dissolved. (seen for the imagination that they are) why do i want to know? Due to passion. Answer won't end the seeking, right. but why may these answer be wrong?Answer which I am getting by seeking may be accurate, is it not? For an example ,other person is real,this is the answer I have. This answer may be accurate. In the same way , why not my searching may bring the right answer? Raj
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Post by enigma on Jan 29, 2013 23:43:38 GMT -8
Why do you want to know that, Raj? Answers won't end the seeking, just lead to more questions. The questions have to be dissolved. (seen for the imagination that they are) why do i want to know? Due to passion. Answer won't end the seeking, right. but why may these answer be wrong?Answer which I am getting by seeking may be accurate, is it not? For an example ,other person is real,this is the answer I have. This answer may be accurate. In the same way , why not my searching may bring the right answer? Raj I'm sorry, Raj. The answers cannot be right because the questions are a cocoon spun from the silk of infinity that can only hold you and can never set you free. They come from emptiness and must return to emptiness. They have nowhere else to go. You cannot make real that which was born in imagination. Enjoy it, love it if you can, but you must not bow to it. It's all a dream from which you are destined to awaken. Save your passion for that, Raj. Nothing you can think is true in the end. All of it will go and leave only your boundless infinity. What sense will questions make then? What hold will they have over you?
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Post by theo on Jan 30, 2013 10:59:02 GMT -8
Well, what would you need to be sure ? To suggest that no process can be a problem to the freedom dangling at the end of the rope seems to stretch the analogy a bit too far for me to grasp. Maybe if we abandon the analogy entirely and rephrase it would help. seeing "processes" as "problems" don't last forever.
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lena
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Post by lena on Jan 31, 2013 16:57:01 GMT -8
"Answers won't end the seeking, just lead to more questions. The questions have to be dissolved. (seen for the imagination that they are)"
Even though it's futile, what else is there to do? There are a lot of of people who don't question at all, not on a spiritual path, but enjoy life fully, no questions asked. Maybe its the seekers who struggle with questions and answers- there's a lot to be said for folks who live life to the fullest with no questions and the almighty answers. unfortunately, I am not one of them. The questions are there and begged to be answered. But after years of questions, it seems to subside, you find you are not desperate to find answers. Mostly what I find to be the most rewarding is not the importance of a questions answered, but finding what I so believed to be true at one time is not the truth - an unlearning of sorts.
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Post by enigma on Jan 31, 2013 17:26:29 GMT -8
"Answers won't end the seeking, just lead to more questions. The questions have to be dissolved. (seen for the imagination that they are)" Even though it's futile, what else is there to do? Like I said, dissolve the questions. See it for the imagination it is. That's what it means to say ignorance is bliss, but as you suggest, it's not an option for those who are already asking the questions. I think that's what I'm saying.
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